insurgentrat

I've recently been making sandwich sausage with seitan, tvp, and bessan (texture and balancing out aminos) plus herbs and spices maybe sundried Ts.

Shit is easy, affordable, and lasts all week.

Might have been this one: https://www.wellbeingintlstudiesrepository.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1051&context=acwp_asie

There was another by the same group I think where they reverse the behaviour modifications by giving the fishies a shot of opiates, and then they stop hiding and rubbing their faces.

edit: I should add why I found this so morally concerning; it hints very strongly at an experience of pain, not just nociception. They don't just run from a bad stimulus, they nurse the site and become more cautious. Something which is hard to explain except if you suppose that like us they have some persistent emotional state which affects how they judge appropriate behaviours. Additionally rubbing, which is commonly observed in humans, indicates an attempt to sooth a spot after harm.

We were ovo pesco at the time and it just made me realise that if fish, which diverged from land animals how many millions of years ago, likely shared so much in the experience of pain including nursing behaviours and becoming more cautious then either these behaviours are highly convergent and frequently occuring or they are very old. Both hinting that consciousness might be extremely similar between living beings.

In other words, Nirvana lied and fish probably do have feelings and that is a horrifying realisation considering how they're treated. If fish, what new discovery would I wait for before pleading "how could I have known?" why not just take a proper and coherent stance against suffering and draw the line at the presence of a nervous system since it's very doable.

Hey thanks, that's an interesting write up.

Facts and logic never convinced anyone

I feel like I'm the only person in the world who read a paper on zebra fish behaviour modification after apitoxin envenomation and looked up from it to say "Hey, zebra fish modify their behaviour in a way that suggests they are less optimistic about finding food after their lips are envenomed. I think we need to go vegan."

My wife, who is amazing, just agreed after I explained the paper.

I've honestly been quite shocked at how that paper hasn't worked on anyone else haha.

Thanks, there was one interesting reply but the rest were uh... not the discussion I was after.

I didn't think I'd have to be so careful to not offend on a pro animal lib instance where people regularly say lots of far more intense things that are usually understood more as gestures of frustration than attacks on particular people.

Oh for sure haha, I mean there's a reason I am not hanging out at my city's vegan social gathering. A fuckload of "maybe if I just buy the greenwashed product and switch off my brain everything will be fine".

I don't think being vegan means you have your head screwed on, and I don't think I said that (if I did, point it out please so I can fix my phrasing). Particularly with how a half arsed capitalist veganism is promoted or the weird fashy roots of food purity it's anyone's bet as to how the person arrived at it.

I think veganism ought to fall out of leftism, like oppressing people for gain is bad because we are all deserve to flourish since we all feel. Being attractive or educated, or smart, or lucky, or born to some family doesn't make your pain and joy matter more. That's a thought that seems like it should readily lead to sympathy for other animals.

There's stuff in here to think about, although I will note the website COC disagrees with you on the last point.

Animal Liberation is essential to any leftist movement, including platforms like Hexbear.

I guess my frustration is mostly forward looking and of the west, given that this is the society I am in. We know a lot more now about why how we treat other animals is wrong, in the same way we know more now as to why the reasons people gave for suppressing lgbt people were wrong.

A leftist movement today which enthusiastically promoted violence against queer people is something to be sceptical of I think, likewise now being against animal liberation is a bit yikes.

Nah I just want to know how other's have faired and hear vegan perspectives. You know how you feel when you're like out and about and everyone you're with starts circlejerking about how awesome idk elon musk trying to rule the world is and why capitalism is great. You start wondering if it's hopeless, or if you're mad?

Every meal outside my household is that basically. Food and food practices are so integral to human life, and even going and doing leftist political shit a good 2/3 of people will be completely hostile to veganism so there isn't even really the escape of comradeship to ground yourself.

One of the only places to connect with an array of different vegans with different experiences is places like this but then... well... gestures virtually.

I really don't mean to. Like I don't barge into the POC threads explaining why I'm actually a good and innocent white person or whatever, I would assume that other people would be at least as polite as to not answer stuff not directed at them but w/e.

The primary defining characteristic of slop machine users is favouring convenience over accuracy. So slop machine users on twitter.

It's not like the variety of convincing lie machine really matters, if you're manipulating text you've input they all do about the same and outside of that they're unreliable and kinda stupid.

Ads are a cognitohazard, no I won't subject myself to them and I encourage everyone else to avoid them.

Yes much of what we rely on is ad supported. I don't have an easy solution, still not damaging my brain by watching ads.

I would mount a defense but I was a polydrug using teen chain smoker and alcohol addict miserably depressed and afraid to open up to anyone because beating queer people to death was a popular evening passtime.

So yeah, I just miss cargo pants and singlet tops haha.

grab the plates 'cause you just got served my feathered friend.