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The people denying this are the same ones who screamed collusion the first time around, and this is infinitely more clear and obvious. Why are you so desperate to assert that trump won fair and square as it becomes clearer and clearer that isn't the case?
I'm just glad some of y'all are starting to realize, I remember getting banned from multiple communities for stating the obvious cx
Holy shit, OP. Those huge replies to your own post make you seem like a loony.
It's a bit much to take in.
why does the title say left wing? musk and trump both admitted to it.
because Newsweek
This article was from right after the election, before Rockland county found that its votes didn't add up and the investigation that followed.
I'd be curious to see newsweeks update considering that information.
This is a source-check on the other substack article which is quoted from above.
The centerpiece of the new theory is recounted thoroughly in a June 11 Substack post titled "She Won. They Didn’t Just Change the Machines. They Rewired the Election." Unlike earlier post-election theories, this one doesn’t just focus on theoretical vulnerabilities plus suspicions or vague statistical anomalies. It introduces what it claims is a complete mechanism consisting of software manipulation; a new access mechanism; and a test case.
New Technical Documentation: It describes engineering change orders (ECOs) showing that Pro V&V, a federally accredited test lab, approved software and hardware changes to ES&S voting machines just before the election, without triggering a full certification review. It did so, according to the new claim, by declaring the changes to be “de minimis” (inconsequential) which allowed the changes to be implemented without a complex recertification process. This “de minimis” claim is presented as essentially bogus — a cover to create an ability to make substantive changes without subjecting them to review.
A New Starlink Access Pathway: It claims that Elon Musk’s Starlink gained a new, previously unknown access that provided real-time internet connectivity to voting machines, allowing votes to be altered during tabulation.
‘A “Smoking Gun” Test Case: It cites five machines in Rockland County, NY, that recorded zero votes for Kamala Harris while showing hundreds of votes for other Democrats in the same precincts. These claims suggest a full system: motive, method, and result. According to the post, this wasn’t just dirty politics or local fraud. It was a coordinated digital operation—technically sophisticated, nationally scaled, and hidden in plain sight.
. . . Tentative Conclusions
The voting machine changes were real, but the idea that Pro V&V scammed the system by claiming “de minimis” to cover up malicious changes does not seem to be supported.
The deployment of 265 Starlink satellites just before the election is confirmed, but there is no evidence any of them were ever connected to voting tabulators and it appears they played no role in vote counting.
The “zero vote” anomaly has a strong sociological explanation and a clear historical precedent- bloc voting by orthodox jewish communities acting on recommendation of their rabbi. It happened in 2020 with Joe Biden receiving zero votes as well.
This is the reply from the “This Will Hold” author:
“This Will Hold
5d Edited
Hi Michael,
Just here to clarify a few things and offer additional context, especially since some of what you’ve presented includes outdated assumptions about air-gapping, “de minimis” logic, and the scope of Starlink’s role in voting infrastructure.
Poll Books vs. Tabulators: Yes, Starlink was “officially” contracted to service e-poll books in multiple counties. What’s been largely overlooked is that many poll books share ports and internal pathways with tabulation systems—especially when all components run through a central UPS or networked control unit. In counties using centralized setups or vendor-integrated “turnkey” packages, the distinction between air-gapped systems and externally connected components becomes blurrier than it should be.
Air-Gapping Is No Longer a Guarantee: The claim that tabulators are “air-gapped” is often cited, but vendor documentation and independent testing contradict that. ES&S DS200s, for example, have modem capabilities that have been activated in previous elections. Add to that the Eaton/Tripp Lite UPS devices with SNMP-enabled network cards—often sitting directly between tabulators and their power/network environment—and it becomes clear there were viable pathways for intrusion, even if indirect.
The Pro V&V ‘De Minimis’ Loophole: This is a bigger deal than most people realize. Pro V&V certified software changes as “de minimis”—which legally sidesteps a full recertification—but the magnitude of those changes, particularly firmware-level updates across multiple counties, raises major red flags. This isn’t a theoretical concern—it’s part of documented complaints from at least three states.
Starlink’s Role Is About Access, Not Visibility: No one is saying Starlink was directly connected to every tabulator. The concern is command-and-control level access. Starlink’s DTC capability—enabled by the Gen2 satellite fleet and confirmed by Musk’s own documentation—bypasses traditional network routes altogether. This isn’t your average ISP connection. It’s a dedicated, private mesh that can sync with smart hardware in real time, independent of local firewalls, and it’s also the reason the “air-gap” dialogue is a nonstarter.
The Ramapo Example (Which I Never Cited): Correct, the voting patterns in ultra-Orthodox communities follow bloc behavior. But that wasn’t my claim. I’ve focused on Clarkstown, where precinct-level data doesn’t follow that sociological trend and includes affidavits from voters whose ballots are inexplicably absent or distorted.
Evidence vs. Admission: The fact that a post-election forensic audit hasn’t caught this yet doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Many audits are partial, lack administrative access, are candidate-specific, or rely on vendor-provided data. Our report is based on data inconsistencies, confirmed system access pathways, contract timelines, and alignment between satellite activation and vote spikes in key precincts.
You said: if someone can offer more information or a correction, you're open to hearing it. This isn’t just a theory anymore—it’s an evidence-based hypothesis backed by infrastructure records, expert forensic analysis, and patterns too precise to dismiss. Add to that a year’s worth of ‘confessions,’ if you will, from the very person who benefited most from the heist.
We’ve laid the groundwork—there’s more than enough evidence for state attorneys general to open an investigation.
Thanks! - TWH“
And actually, for the first time I can ever remember, I’m specifically recommending reading the comments on there.
it’s quite a stretch to say that Starlink DTC can connect to any “smart device“.
is the author trying to say that UPSes have cellular modems or satellite terminals in them?
Not that I know of. Here’s a good recap of that part:
“Air-Gap” Protection — Theory vs. Reality: This is a critical distinction. The idea that voting systems are “air-gapped”—i.e., not connected to any network—is a common talking point, but it doesn’t hold up under scrutiny.
Remote updates have been pushed in multiple jurisdictions, sometimes over cellular or satellite connections. Some systems labeled “offline” were shown to have remote management ports.
Direct-to-Cell (DTC) satellite capability, rolled out by Musk/Starlink in 2024, allowed access without land-based signals. These satellites could interface directly with LTE modems or integrated modules — no Wi-Fi or Ethernet required.
Pro V&V and system vendors never updated threat models to account for these technologies, and security protocols have not evolved with the real-world capabilities of modern equipment.
So yes — the “air-gap” is now more myth than reality, especially in jurisdictions using equipment with remote-access pathways installed or updated under the guise of “de minimis” changes.
that doesn’t connect the dots. The de minimis update was purportedly to the UPS driver software. Sounds like the implication is that the connection between the UPS and the driver was used to backdoor the systems. Which device exactly was supposed to have received the Starlink DTC connection?
I really encourage you to read both articles but it sounds like you might want to start with the comment thread on the second substack one.
I don't know, because I'm not anything close to the author but I'll go see if I can find the answer to that.
Edit: Okay I think this is the relevant part. Basically the theory is that Palantir's "digital janitor" was used to upgrade voting machine firmware and then erase itself. That upgrade would allow LTE modems to connect to Starlink. That's my read, I could be wrong.
The Activation: Starlink Goes Direct-to-Cell
That signal came on October 30, 2024—just days before the election, Musk activated 265 brand new low Earth orbit (LEO) V2 Mini satellites, each equipped with Direct-to-Cell (DTC) technology capable of processing, routing, and manipulating real-time data, including voting data, through his satellite network.
DTC doesn’t require routers, towers, or a traditional SIM. It connects directly from satellite to any compatible device—including embedded modems in “air-gapped” voting systems, smart UPS units, or unsecured auxiliary hardware.
From that moment on:
- Commands could be sent from orbit
- Patch delivery became invisible to domestic monitors
- Compromised devices could be triggered remotely
All I know is, Elon knew who won the election by 7pm est. make it make sense.
Trump and his cohorts were ALWAYS going to claim victory. To this day plenty of them won't say Biden beat Trump.
Adding to what the other person said: If they'd lost the election (which was fairly unlikely; the writing was on the wall) they'd have claimed it to be rigged, so his statement would be "true" either way.
Okay, I will: Fascists will always say they're winning, they're going to win, and they've won, no matter what the reality on the ground is. He would have said the same even if the election went to Harris. Because they project power by promoting the idea that they are strong and perfect and always win and you're inadvertently giving them power by believing it.
He also said he would win in a cage match with Zuckerberg, then claimed Zuckerberg was the one who chickened out.
Let’s be clear:
Donald Trump pledges allegiance to a red, white, and blue flag—
It’s just not the American one.
He did suggest joining the common wealth. Egads! He's a limey redcoat traitor!
I'm just gonna say it: Everything about everyone involved in this administration screams people who are hired for their loyalty, not their skillsets.
The theory that they used Uninterruptible Power Supplies to modify the vote, and that they had enough people involved to pull this off, yet everyone kept their mouth shut, is not the level of competency I have seen from anyone in Trump's orbit.
As someone with a background in tech, I find it hard to believe. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. They can make up all the stories about they want in their own heads, until there's some proof of it, it's just as bullshit as Trump's claims of election fraud.
If Eaton pushed an update to those UPS units, it could have gained root-level access to the host tabulation environment—without ever modifying certified election software.
So yeah, we're gonna have to have a hell of a lot more to go on than "could have" here. Also I'm skeptical on the claim that Windows automatically trusts any connected UPS and skeptical about the "root level access" claim (including the fact that it is called administrator access on Windows, Windows doesn't have "root" accounts).
Part of the reason I'm skeptical on the root-level access claim regarding a UPS. If you could do this with any old UPS, this would make any and every UPS in existence a major attack vector to every computer and computer network in existence. I find it hard to believe that cybersecurity experts would have somehow missed this in the last 20 years that commercial level UPS's have been in use. That it was just somehow conveniently overlooked that you could override server administration with a UPS. I don't buy that.
EDIT: All this being said, I think a court case to reveal any evidence that is there is important. It's highly improbable but not impossible and so I hope the court case moves forward quickly.
I think it's also a great risk and a shot-in-the-dark kind of attack. They wouldn't have "live" access to the machines so they would've needed a complicated algorithm to alter results in a believable way. If 100% of votes for Harris get swapped to Trump that's very suspicious. If it's only 10% of votes then you risk having no affect. And if the attack is successful on every machine in a deep blue county or precinct that makes the amount you could reasonably swap even less. In other words it's extremely difficult to be effective AND be subtle.
The Starlink theory sounds a bit more plausible but that also sounds like a stretch assuming the transmissions were encrypted (and God help us if they thought that wasn't necessary).
Ups software probably installed as system so that it can perform script execution and shutdown properly. That software communicates with the UPS directly. UPS vendors wouldn’t be at the top of my list of security-minded companies.
The execution path isn’t impossible.
I mean, the article focuses more on how the UPSes have SNMP enabled network cards.
SNMP is Simple Network Management Protocol, which is for, well, simple network management, not computer administration, which are different things.
SNMP can definitely be an attack vector, so it's generally considered good practice to disable it on any ports it's not absolutely needed. Further, it's mostly able to be abused for DDOS, although there are some possibilities for network penetration. Network, not computer, once again. Controlling the router isn't the same as controlling the Server., although it can help you move towards controlling the Server. Still a lot of hoops to jump through from network to server.
Every election is run on a local level, and this would mean that in enough swing states, one of two things was happening: either the election cybersecurity team in all the states affected was technically incompetent or they were somehow in on it and all kept their mouths shut. Both of those are highly unlikely when it comes to the frequency at which this happened all over the country.
While you generally have a good point about script execution via a UPS, once again, does that mean every single cybersecurity team in every state affected was foolish enough to be giving a UPS administrator script execution capabilities? Because just executing a script doesn't mean the user executing the script has admin rights. Once again, either every team was inept or somehow the famously loose-lipped Trump team was sitting on a zero-day exploit to gain admin access and somehow kept it quiet.
I understand where you’re coming from with this angle, but you’re wrong. Very few people need to be involved to get this done. Also, just like with other conspiracy theories that are still publicly frowned upon but highly probably true: I wouldn’t count on internal US people to do the ground work either.
It is very likely the machines were fixed early to mid 2024. I agree that the UPS theory or starlink is ridiculous.
I’ve written more here if you want to understand the broader angle. https://lemmy.world/post/27126084
These two ladies are worth a listen too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk1A-tLIaXY
To play devils advocate, I watched children do this back in 2017.
I remember that, too. And I remember hackers getting physical access to Diebold machines with a Sharpie pen in 2004.
It still comes back to the fact that the article this stems from is literally nothing but speculation.
Right, is amazing as this would be to feel this vindicated, we are acting just like them if we fall into this kind of shit without evidence
I've been listening to a great podcast series about Titanic. (This will come around, bear with me.)
One of the things mentioned in the latest episode is that it didn't take long for conspiracy theories to develop about the sinking, that it had to have been done on purpose. Because there are a lot of people who didn't want to believe the truth: that it was possible for the largest luxury liner ever built could go to the bottom of the north Atlantic in two and a half hours on its maiden voyage on accident.
The uncomfortable truth about this last election is that, yes, enough people willfully voted for fascism to put this administration in place. The United States is much further away from the ideal we'd all been led to believe it has strived to be, so far that it's clear that it's not even striving for that ideal anymore. That truth is so unconscionable to some people that accepting a conspiracy theory is more palatable.
That truth is so unconscionable to some people that accepting a conspiracy theory is more palatable.
It's really hurtful to the mind of a kind-hearted person. It says a lot of dark things about humanity in general that this nation was so easily steered into this. It's valid to want to reject it, but I'd rather live in the dark reality and face it than do like the MAGAts and retreat to the safety of fantasy and fiction that it just has to be a conspiracy to explain how so many people are so terrible. Nope, humans are really that fucked.
It’s really hurtful to the mind of a kind-hearted person.
The messed up part is that the people who voted for this think they're doing good. There are a few moral monsters of course, but most of the people who participate in historic crimes think they're helping.
Much like the night sky, humanity is largely a dark thing, speckled with occasional bright spots.
Humanity is Banana Joe from the Amazing World of Gumball:
Banana Joe: Bobert, facts are like stars—
Anais: They're always in the sky, but you can't always see them.
Banana Joe: No, they're like shiny holes in the dark light of my ignorance, and I don't like 'em!
Except for Trump letting slip that without musk and those voting machines he would have lost and during the Twitter fight between the 2 musk said Trump wouldn't be president without him.
I feel like Trump is kinda the type of guy who would say shit just to stir the pot. Plus, fascist love for the public to think they are more competent than they really are, especially if it makes them seem like they are the underdog pulling one over on the establishment. Same thing works for musk.
This, they will always say they are going to win even if they're not, they will always say they've won even if they haven't.
See: Musk v. Zuckerberg. Musk acts like he won even though he's a pudgy fat shit and never even stepped into the ring with Zuckerberg. It's projection of power, and people are giving them power by believing it.
Musk and Trump would have said they were winning no matter what. They would have said they won no matter what. If they lost they would say the "mainstream media" lied.
Circumstantial evidence is not evidence. Further, this story is about Tripp Lite, which last I checked, isn't owned by Musk. It's owned by Eaton. Gonna have to jump through a lot of mental hoops to connect Eaton and Musk.
Have you ever considered that they would say they were going to win even if they weren't? That part of how fascism and fascists work is by projecting power by never admitting weakness? Saying you're the winner, even after you've lost, is common for both Trump and Musk.
The problem is is that Trump cheating is more than plausible. You're right that real evidence is absolutely required.
And they did cheat. They cut millions from voter rolls. They spent more time questioning whether signatures on mail-in voters were valid. They did more gerrymandering. They, in general, did their damnedest to make it harder for people vote. They used disinformation campaigns and foreign actors to influence social media. The thing about it is, they do a lot more of it out in the open than people want to admit. Just like how they weren't hiding Project 2025. Why would they suddenly have the ability to be so tight lipped about just this issue?
Because all the things you mentioned are par for the course and easily digestible by common folks. Actual "cheating" at the polls would do a lot more damage to the country than just Trump being caught being a felon again.
They said that about finding out that Bush signed off on torture. Surprise, the evidence changed nothing. The country slumped on, unbothered by war crimes.
Did the Snowden leaks change anything about the surveillance state? No.
What makes you think this would be any different?
To be clear, I'm not trying to be defeatist, I'm trying to be realistic. As far back as the Snowden leaks philosopher Slajov Žižek wrote about this phenomenon and he, even back then, was convinced that in the modern era, with so much information bombarding us, that evidence no longer mattered. He used the Bush torture leaks and the Snowden leaks as his evidence. I'm certainly not the first person to have noticed this pattern in the modern internet era.
No you make good points. I suppose I'm a bit delusional when it comes to still having a sliver of belief in people and systems.
OK, so let's prove it then.
Gather up the irrefutable concrete evidence and watch most of the people of this country either refute it or ignore it because, to them, the alternative is too difficult to face
This is why I think our country is fucked. You have a whole side that would die before they admit they were wrong and voted for the criminals. They will literally let our country crumble before they admit they made a mistake…. How do you “fix” that?
The hardest thing to face is that deprogramming people from a cult is almost exactly like programming them for a cult.
You can see the spin already, hell Newsweek is using it verbatim: “Left-wing conspiracy theory”.
The key element of which is; there’s no evidence left behind.
Hell I can’t get people to watch the documentary of Cambridge Analytica because they literally do not want to know. And even if it gets proven 100% and soon, the DoJ and the army are owned. The Mueller Report spelled out collusion and with one news cycle, Bill Barr killed it with a simple lie that it did not.
Not putting much hope in this but it is interesting, anyway.
