Ask Lemmy

I'm getting there with my coworker although I wouldn't quite call her conservative; she voted for the NDP in Canada where we live as we are both union members and that's who we vote for, but she loves Trump, but in this crumbling hellscape of the last few months and the tariffs he's hollering on about on Canada, she doesn't like that because she can't cross border shop. She says he's gone rather loony although she still likes him.

However, she isn't stupid, and she watches all sorts of news from all over and doesn't just blindly believe in the cult. The last few days I have explained dark money to her, and how it fuels elections in the US for both parties and how basically the Koch brothers and all the Tanton network groups fund Trump. I gave her some articles to read, and she's starting to get it. I didn't put it from the perspective of hating trump, just that she should know how these things are funded for everyone (the Democrats are no stranger to dark money either and just because the groups they funnel it in under sound sunnier and less racist doesn't make them any less sketchy), and how the political landscape is manipulated that way. I am finding she's listening to this, and coming away with a better perspective, rather than trying to explain why he's totally wrong. Dark money is a topic I recommend to everyone to learn about, because these elections in the US are being bought by dark money.

Most people do not respond to a single argument or fact. They accumulate multiple experiences. This is why the shift happens gradually for most people instead of instantly when they are confronted with facts.

No, they have ego issues that prevent self reflection.

I think contrapoints on YouTube 100% convinced me there is nothing strange or weird about trans people. They are just people and the way society treats them is wrong and we need to change that.

Not to say I hated trans people before but I didn't know much about it and Natalie did a thorough job explaining in a way that was easy to understand.

Yes, however…

1. Many people you meet online are not, strictly speaking, people.
2. Of the remainder, many are there for a reason.

I would wholeheartedly agree with the deprogrammer with one clarification: “known to you IRL” refers more to anonymity than to whether your interactions take place online, and the reason for that is important to consider.

Yes, and this is generally how it works:

1. Establish that you care about their perspective, and truly mean it. Most people can sniff out insincerity.
2. Start asking good faith questions about their position. If their beliefs are misguided, they will begin stumbling upon the flaws on their own. It’s okay to guide them gently with the questions, but don’t try to convince of them of any particular viewpoint, and don’t tell them they are wrong either directly or indirectly. That can undo any progress you made. Just focus on encouraging them to deeply analyze logic that you recognize to be flawed.
3. Only offer your perspective / opinions if you are asked directly. If you’ve done #1 and #2 well, this should start happening. I recommend understating your opinions. You don’t have to lie, but keep rants to a minimum and use soft language.
4. Be consistent. No one changes their world view overnight. It takes planting seeds, watering them consistently, and waiting.

P.S. If you are doing this correctly and with an open mind, there’s actually a good chance you might change your opinions on a some things, and that’s okay (as long as they aren’t harmful). It also can show them by example that opinions are flexible and should be based on evidence, not the other way around.

I don't argue with conservatives online to try and change their minds. I argue with them to change the minds of people reading the argument. For every social media user that posts content, there are a thousand lurkers. I post arguments so hopefully some of those lurkers might change their mind away from nationalist authoritarianism

I just humour people when they tell me political opinions I don't agree with. No one ever changes their minds.

absolutely not and i imagine the same is true for leftists.

I was raised super conservative, and the two biggest steps on my journey to the left were Jon Stewart Bernie Sanders

Jon got my attention by pointing out the hypocrisy that did in fact exist on both sides. It gave me a space to exist where I wasn't just called a wrong dumb redneck and dismissed, but felt like he was actually trying to meet me where I was. That allowed me to let my guard down and actually listen to what he was saying.

Bernie Sanders came along in 2016 at a point where I would've called myself a centrist and basically did the same thing. Non judgmentally gave me a space to exist, listed some topics I cared about, then gave me a cause for them.

People don't like being told they're wrong. You cannot debate someone out of believing what they believe. What you can do is ask them questions. Get them to consider why they believe what they believe, and eventually they may start seeing contradictions and change their mind on their own.

If it means anything, I started my journey on lemmy as an armchair socialist who in practice was more a welfare capitalism type person. Now I’m a full on anarchist (anti-capitalist). So a steady stream of influence, especially when people make good points and it helps make sense of my suffering, has shifted my political views strongly.

(But the basis for that shift was already kind of laid out, I’ve been fascinated by anarchist critiques for a while, and one of my favourite political authors was one. But the sort of being in a community of likeminded people [lemmy] and having significant suffering at the hands of the current system that made me more strongly shift towards those views).

On the other hand. Simply having a few conversations with my vaguely left wing partner about my views has led her to go from vaguely social democrat to anarchist.

I think the lesson is change is possible, it’s just a slow series of events that add up. Usually there isn’t one thing that straight up switches a person.

Maybe but I feel I’ve made it worse sometimes too.

There’s a couple sayings. ‘The smart man sounds like crazy man to the stupid man’ and ‘You can’t win an argument with an idiot’.

As complex as it can be, it usually boils down to that or you just find out they’re rich, selfish, like control, and love schadenfreude.

I was raised Christian. I was taught homosexuality was a sin. I used to angrily preach at others to convert them or they'll burn in hell. etc. etc.

Fuck those people

That said, no, I have not succeeded in shifting anyone's views ever. Typically the people I encounter are beyond saving unless the things happening directly impact them.