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I don't care about kids being unattended by a parent or guardian if they are behaving themselves. Honestly, these days I tend to see more adults behaving like children in public, causing a scene than children who behave like children causing a scene.
I'm more concerned by a small child by itself getting snatched or hurt than because they might annoy me.
I might not have a puppy, but I always have skittles (the crack of the candy world)
I raised my kids to be independent and was not very controlling - they think I was pretty hands off because they don't remember the earliest years - but I can't imagine doing that without literally teaching them what was reasonable behavior for different spaces. We did restaurant training, sit in your chair, use the utensils, don't yell. (ETA I would do this at teatime when it was slow, and tip double since the bill did not reflect the mess or work at all) In stores, "put your hands behind" was the cue, not "don't touch" because it's easier to tell them to do something than to not do something.
At the park though? My only rule was don't show off, don't do anything to show off. If you want to climb the tree because you want to climb the tree, go for it but no "look at me I'm in the tree" because then you will probably go past what's safe for you. When they fell down while running ask "you gonna be ok?" not "are you ok?"
Compared to their friends' parents, the younger ones think I'm nearly neglectful but it's more than my mom did, parenting right now while there are fewer kids around us so weird. So many parents are so controlling even of their high schoolers. You are trying to raise competent adults, they have to have the space to make decisions and mistakes to do that.
1- this is cursed
2- i dont think this belongs in asklemmy
What community would be more appropriate? I'm pretty loose with fediverse communities. I'd rather throw more content up even if it's not the best fit just to give Lemmy more content and this post got a shitton of interaction
ive neer seen link posts on asklemmy, and its generally used for self posts. i think its probably more of a fit in a curiosity comm. this kind of controversial but kind of funny takes do well in shitposting comms too.
it did appear to have sparked some discussion here now so actually on second tought, why not keep it here.
Fine, but don't get mad when I laugh at them tripping and falling.
The framing of this article is all wrong. There aren't just two choices: discipline or wild abandon. There's times and places for both. Five pm at the colorful hippy burrito spot with dinosaur toys and a large play area, let them run free. Out at a special dinner with family bring them with, set your timer for their ability to keep it together and make adjustments as needed. If they don't meet the standard, thats cool. Not their fault and probably not even your fault. Do a vibe check and leave if needed.
Hell, I'm all for your kid doing frog jumps down the grocery aisle, but be a sentinal and see if there's a person in that aisle that would care. You can read the people who are delighted by the child's exuberance and those who want nothing to do with it. I'm not a big fan of screens, but they have their time and place like on the six hour flight.
Any case, there's only so much you can do when parenting. Creating a safe connection for them is so important and then trusting you to see them, receive them, and make the unknown a little bit safer is all a tall task.
Let them run and play and fall and get scrapes, yes. Don't be a helicopter parent. But when other people are around, respect the social contract.
I witnessed a dad (friend of a friend at a group dinner) nearly get in a fist fight because someone asked him to corral his kids that were interfering with their meal. Madness.
I say fuck people like this. And if you are people like this, then fuck you too.
Public space is for public, not just your kids. If you let your kids run wild, then you are sacrificing other people's freedom.
Also, this is how entitled little bitches are created. Do you want your kid to be an entitled little bitch?
I had a glorious moment at a restaurant with my extended family where there was a large group with kids at the next table letting them run riot. The parents were all nursing huge glasses of white wine and chatting away while the kids bothered other diners, waiters, etc.
At the end of the meal, after paying the bill, my uncle went over to the parents and told them their kids had ruined our meal. One of the parents tried to protest that he'd obviously never had kids. He responds, "I raised 3 kids and none of them ever behaved as badly as yours have done this afternoon." Mic drop; my party left.
My hero!
It was British high drama
It's also how kidnappings happen. It's stupid.
I hate this attitude. "Never let your child out of your sight or they'll immediately be kidnapped".
You know they're more likely to be abused by family than a stranger. By your rationale you should never allow family to see your children either.
When your little brother's hand gets snatched by some wanker at a Tesco fruit isle, while your mum is at the fish counter, and tries to take him, you can tell me I'm being irrational. Until then, you have nothing to say.
How do you know the wanker wasn't related to you in some way?
Lol good come back question to a traumatic event recollection. He wasn't related.
I’m on the fence. It’s a pretty subjective topic no? Public spaces will always have conflict due to many people have many preferences.
I guess including conflict of people trying to take your kids and ransom them.
I teach kids, and a lesson I have with them is on "context".
The game of tag, is it good or bad?
Well, on the playground it is good, really fun actually!
But in music class or at the library? It's really bad.
The game didn't change, the context did. Same goes with parenting imo. In fact I'd go so far as to say that teaching your kids to be considerate of the spaces they are in is a good thing.
I grew up with my mom telling us to keep our hands behind our back when going into an antique store or to be polite at the dinner table, and I was always invited to dinners and nice places by my friends parents because they knew I'd behave.
Going off of this, If you never give your kids the chance to exist independently in public spaces (and appropriately discipline them/ teach them) they'll grow up without really learning this well.
I can't believe how many kids (high school) these days will call their parents to help them out of any uncertain task in a public space rather than try to figure it out on their own.
Recent example was I was taking a kid to the customer service desk on a trip I was chaperoning because they forgot their pass, and they were so lost about what to do and were calling their parents for help. I had to tell them relax, we'll just explain the problem to the person at the desk and see what they say. And he could barely do that.
I imagine that if you as a kid had the freedom to explore museums and stuff semi-independently as a 10 year old but also under supervision, they would have so much more confidence in public spaces on their own later.
There is a difference between disciplining and helicoptering.
The author's critical approach to what is 'polite' is all well and good, but I have reservations about what she considers the limit.
As for the 'doing no harm to others', she must recognize that the harm her children do may not be readily apparent. When I've got a massive migrane, I don't want to hear her kids screaming in the next booth over, but I also don't want to have to confront her about it and risk her screaming also. Better to sit and suffer until I can't.
The writer of the article is treating child rearing as if it requires PhD level child psychology. It doesn't.
A child's behavior is almost always ok if it is safe, non-destructive, legal, and NOT OFFENSIVE TO OTHER PEOPLE IN THE SAME SPACE. It doesn't even matter if the other people's idea of "offensive" seems reasonable or not. If their children are bothering others, a responsible parent will either curb their behavior or take them elsewhere.
The writer apparently doesn't understand that last part.
Yes it absolutely does matter if other people's idea of offensive seems reasonable.
If it seems unreasonable my new game for that moment is to see how much I can offend them without breaking any laws.
My opinion?
I doubt such a person will ever be able to realize public space is not hers and is not there for her to use as she pleases. Public space is, well, public and shared between everybody and as such must be used with consideration to others. What would that incredibly tolerant (towards herself/her kids) lady say if I was to, say, come sit right next to her and loudly fart while she is eating her sandwich?
She can let her kids splash (and fart as loudly and) as much as they/she wants in her own home. Heck, she can even let them burn her house down if she thinks it's good for them. But what will she say the day her kids get hurt doing some stupid shit like that?
Does she really need a fucking 'handbook' to understand the cosmic level of stupidity she's reaching for? That's so unbelievably clueless and egoistical. But whats so sad is to realize it's not even surprising anymore.
I will have one last thought for those poor kids, just imagining the kind of teens and young adults she's preparing them to be :(
I hate to sound like an old person with my "people these days rant", but it's just people being inconsiderate, and it's everywhere. People stand in doorways and elevators, make people behind them on the road wait while they turn from the wrong lane, cut in lines, run red lights because they don't want to wait, etc.
This is simply people being selfish and not wanting to parent, there's no difference. There are places where kids can run wild and be themselves, but it's not literally everywhere. Remember that the end goal is to raise not a child, but an empathetic, functioning member of society. So start teaching them early...
I definitely don't feel like we live in a world where too much respect for others in public has become a problem.
