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At my last job I was asked to get a certain cert as one of my yearly goals. When I asked for time to study, I was told to do it on my own time. I said "If you want me to do this on my own time, clearly it is optional and I'm not doing it." and then I didn't.
In my case there was no raise to be had from doing it though, so it was easier to refuse. Good luck!
If your company, for which your boss is an agent and therefore part of, is ASKING YOU to get this cert, then the study is labor done as a part of you position. You need to be paid for this work.
If the company is only making it a prerequisite for advancement, and not asking you to get it per se, then reimbursement is reasonable.
If you happen to have a Union then check with them.
If you need a cert to keep your current position and it wasn't required when you started, that's one thing.
If you need a cert to promote and climb within the company that's totally different. That's education and qualifications that you need if you choose to climb the ladder and make more. There isn't really any reason the company should have to pay you for this time for you to study and obtain those certifications. If you decide you want more money, then you will decide to study outside of work. If you wanted a position that required a bachelor's degree at your company, would you expect the company to pay for your degree and pay for your time at college?
I definitely expect companies to provide continued education opportunities to employees that they value. There's a difference between taking a couple of online classes and asking the company to pay for a bachelor's degree, so of course each company is going to have to figure out what works best for them, but only foolish bosses would throw away perfectly good employees who want to improve.
Unless you are willing to tell your boss to fuck off and go find another job, I don't think it's in your interest to tell him that. Someone with the mindset to tell you to study on your own time isn't going to take it very well.
Either say fuck the certification and promotions and don't study, or just study on work time surreptitiously, or suck it up and study on your own time to get the certifications to make yourself more valuable to get a job somewhere else where they don't have that sort of mindset.
In the end, if it's a valuable cert, that cert belongs to OP and can be used for future jobs, so personal time investment is acceptable.
If the cert is a "company cert" and is only usable within that company, then that's training for the job and should be provided on company time and dime.
You state "Getting certs is part of what is required for me to get bigger raises and get promoted and all that jazz." So this is not a required part of your CURRENT position. If you want a better position, you will need to invest in yourself, using some of your own time. Sounds like the employer is already paying for the courses and tests, the rest is now up to you.
Do not go in to your meeting with a bad attitude, you will just piss off your boss. Accept that if you want a promotion and higher pay that you are going to have to give up some personal time to get there. Remember, they've already given you time, and you failed, multiple times from what you wrote, so now it is time for you to hunker down and do it on your own time.
Exactly this. I would be ecstatic if my employer paid for my cert tests. I pay for them myself and study on my own time, then leverage them during annual reviews to show why I deserve promotions and raises.
For context, I went from homeless to six figures because of this kind of hustle. If you want to just tread water then do so, otherwise you need to put in the work on your own time.
Your time is your time. Work time or things related to work are work hours. I will die on that hill.
I've seen some good responses here, definitely take their advice.
What is your field? What are the certs for?
"I don't feel it is in my personal benefit to spend my energy and time outside of work, chasing a end goal that will not favor me personally. This certificate was not a requirement for me being hired, and I am not being reimbursed for said spent time and energy. If this is something that the company is interested in pursuing, I am more than happy to continue working on it as long as I am reimbursed for my time. A chance at promotion with no compensation in current day, does not guarantee enough of a reward for it to be worth my time."
Know your worth OP, companies will burn you time and time if they think they can. Don't learn the hard way like I did, or my grandfather did (he did a masters degree fully out of pocket because there was an increase in pay involved + a massive bonus, the removed the bonus and halved the increase in pay the year he graduated). It's a well known scam used by employers in specialized fields to avoid having to actually pay for training and certs.
Additionally you may want to note that if they try to say that you need to cert to stay at the company, mention that in that case it's mandatory training and you are supposed to be paid for time spent, and if they refuse look into an employment lawyer for wage theft.
Continuous Professional Development (CPD) is a trait of professional careers. Do you think doctors, nurses, etc only study on work time?
If you're not in such a professional field, discuss remuneration for doing it in your free time as the company will benefit. You need to figure out how much you want for a raise, and if things fall through remind them you'll be more employable and you can go elsewhere after passing. Maybe even push for an early raise now to keep you as it seems they like you.
If the company doesn't pay me for a certification they want me to have, I will choose whatever certification/training to meet my requirements. If the cert is something I am interested, cool beans, otherwise the company can pound sand.
This is an intervention. All your posts are full of vitriol. You need to take some time out.
I don't know about medical professionals, but Professional Engineers do, in fact, often get reimbursed by their company for the cost of earning their PDH credits.
100%, I'll work on it at home, but you'll be paying me for my time...
You have the right to be compensated for time spent studying for work. And he has the right to fire you for using it so ineffectively that you continuously fail.
Sounds like they were already being paid and failing.
We get X hours per week work time and tests reimbursed after we pass. If we fail, it's on us. None are required, but free education and testing is great. Read a chapter or two each day, get more involved, won't kill you. Hell, might even help land you a better job.
Its your education and your career youre cheating. OP needs to eradicate from him/herself their childish folley.
Note that my certifications are globally recognized (Microsoft 365, cloud management, etc) not internal bullshit.
Read the title of this post oitloud to him.
Tell your boss that the time when you aren't at work is the time when you do "the rest of my life." Tell them that your schedule is already very full and that what free time you do have is for downtime for resting and recuperating from the things that keep you busy. Politely but firmly let them know that you need to pursue work during work time.
That's a long way to say "I don't know that I have availability on that schedule."
That's the line I used when it was suggested. My year clock started then, and I was out on time. They were surprised, but I included the email as part of my resignation.
I hate the idea of "personal" time. It doesn't belong to my job by default. It's all my personal time. If they want any of it they will need to pay.
FULLY AGREE.
I am lending my employer some of my personal time. Therefor if they want more, they need to pay for it. This ideology that you are owned by your company is shitty and needs to stop.
Generally they do and it's expected after you've obtained the certification with a raise. This is ongoing payment and will most likely exceed the hourly wage invested to obtain the cert
Send them an invoice for "outside consultation and development" at roughly triple your current wage
because all of my coworkers and I keep failing these really hard tests, we aren't allow to study during downtime on the clock.
Well there's your answer. It sounds like they are tired of making losing investments.
Their employer hasn't made any investment if the employees have only been studying during downtime.
"My other commitments don't leave time for studying enough to pass this certification test."
When they ask what the other commitments are:
"It's personal, and I'm not comfortable talking about it."
If getting the cert is part of your goals or part of your work, then you need to tell your boss you are willing to put in the work during business hours. Anything work related outside of business hours requires overtime pay.
If these certs are not part of your goals/work, then I would suggest talking with your boss about incorporating them in.
If a stock broker or insurance actuary had this sort of opinion they would be making 50k not 300k. When else would they study for their exams and certs?
If I as a PhD candidate didn’t work on my own time I will never get my PhD.
This seems like a /antiwork terminally online position to have. I agree in only giving bosses what we are required but this is for you to succeed.
I know all of one insurance actuary, and she has a study budget both in euros and hours.
Well my family member is one and that is not how they did it. They had to get their certs in order to be an actuary.
Had the same conversation with my boss, and I specifically asked him "Is this certificaton job related or is it just so someone can check a box on a spreadsheet somewhere? If it's job related, I'm absolutely down for it, what does the new role entitle and what's the increase in pay for it?"
Response? Silence.
What was the certification?
That was the weird part, it wasn't any one specific certification, it was any 2nd certification in addition to the job related cert I already had.
Well idk, my certs have multiple levels/advancements that you can specialize in, so...
If you need the cert to do your job they should compensate you (i.e. allow you to use company time). If it's not required then I would say I'm going to accept the risks of not becoming certified as the time investment is not feasible for me. Many people provide value staying in the same role for years and advancement, if it's a net negative to someone's overall well-being, should be optional at the employees discretion.
