Ask Lemmy

If they symathise with nazi ideology, I'll punch them for sure.

However most people I've seen that use those symbols are simply misinformed about the nazi ideology. I think that not knowing isn't wrong; not learning is.

Fyi, from what I've read anarchists reject the cookbook and interpret it as being pro-government while also having inaccurate and dangerous recipes. There are better resources for the latter (including official military handbooks), while the former encourages people to roll over and take whatever abuse they're handed.

When it comes to punching Nazis, would I actually do it IRL? I'm not sure. It'd probably depend on whether I'm in a "fuck it, we ball" kinda mood or not. If I am, then I'm absolutely going to try and wreck the Nazi to the best of my ability. They might not get back up. If not, then I'd probably just roll my eyes, lose a little more faith in humanity, and keep going.

What you need to realize is that the Nazi would absolutely do the same to you, possibly worse, if given the chance; and people are too busy to research every single person they come across and are too desensitized to respond to "he's literally a Nazi" (America's right wing did a great job of painting "Nazi" as being meaningless in a modern context). That makes it very easy for them to lie to the general population about their goals.

Look at how far Trump and Vance have gotten. They literally support Nazis and Klansmen (Ku Klux Klan), yet people seemed to actually believe that Biden was as bad as Trump. It wasn't until Trump started talking about Hatians eating pets at a national debate that people stopped and were like, "damn, what the fuck?"

What if he hadn't though? What if he'd managed to keep his cool and pretend to be normal? The thing that scares me is that I think he might still have a chance, simply because I think the recent debate may have inspired false confidence in Democrats.

Nazis, Klansmen, bigoted institutions in general, will take a mile if you give them an inch, and proceed to wrap it around your neck and hang you from a tree with it; and they're very good at getting what they want because they'll literally eat shit if they believe it'll help them win. They believe utopia is achieved through oppression and mass murder; wouldn't you do anything you can to achieve utopia if you think it's in arms reach, especially when the path is obvious thanks to the efforts of prior fascists?

That's why you punch Nazis. That's why people say that the only good Nazi is a dead Nazi. A Nazi's idea of utopia is forged with blood and torment; and they're willing to do anything to make it a reality.

They are not jokes. People here really don't see a problem with violence, unless it against "the bad guys". It's sickening.

• “Self-defense is not violence!”
• “No tolerance for intolerance!”
• you don’t want your place becoming a Nazi bar

The one thing fascists can't stand is to be laughed at. Don't take them seriously - laugh at them and it hits harder than a gut punch.

Very

Maybe there's a good argument for nonviolence but "the means dictate the ends" isn't it imo. It could be that there's more to it in the book but presented as is I'd say it doesn't follow logically, I'm going to want to see proof that it's actually true which is going to be tricky because there are obvious counter examples.

The easiest one is probably Ukraine. I'm sure most Ukrainians want to live in a peaceful and nonviolent society, but if they took your principle to heart there would be no Ukraine right now.

This line of reasoning kind of falls apart when you deal with someone that doesn't act on good faith. For example you can pioneer democracy and the will of the people and then let 10% of radical people use propaganda to brainwash 41% of normal people to take over the government and then basically breakapart the foundations of democracy and people's rights. The end result is a democratic path to the end of democracy and a worse situation for everyone involved. There's a reason people say you can't be tolerant of anti-tolerance.

A general Fruit punch is usually the safest bet, as it is a universal tasty refreshing treat, but the flavor can be altered for the fascists in any given area. Try finding the most popular local fruits for your region and emphasize those. The next big consideration is should it be alcoholic or nonalcoholic, and this again varies enormously but I would urge you to go the nonalcoholic route, as some fascists may be sensitive to social pressures to imbibe when they don't yet feel perfectly comfortable.

For all I care nazis could be hunted for sport. The problem is, neither I nor other people should decide who 'deserves' violence and who doesn't. I'm not holding it against anyone to punch nazis, but I'd only do it to defend myself or others.

There was a Proud Boys rally in my city just a few years ago. I went with a bunch of other queers specifically to punch some Nazis in protest.

Non-violence notoriously does not work against violent aggressors. Like Nazis.

The most serious. I will go to court over it.

You could try laughing at them instead, but maybe then they start the punching.

Ill put it like this, im serious enough about it that this is as much of it I'd ever say on the internet.

2020 was a glorious year for punching fascists.

I mean… I’ve punched Nazis. I’d prolly do it again.

Depends on how much of a threat they are. Some random loser on /pol/ who will never leave their basement in order to harm anyone is probably not worth punching. But someone like Richard Spencer, who has a lot of reach and influence as a big name, I'll gleefully watch that one clip over and over with popcorn at the ready.

I suppose the more difficult question to ask is where to draw the line in between.

In a youtube video by Matt Baume, he discussed two types of protestors against offensive gay representation in the media.

The first group was loud and disruptive. One guy broke into the news room and yelled over the anchor about the injustice. Another guy handcuffed himself to a camera. It was a problem that could shut down production entirely.

The second group was calm and willing to negotiate. However, the only reason they were listened to by the networks was because of the first group. They even had whistles to ruin the filming if they weren't listened to. But they were, and filming went without a hitch after that.

It's not the peaceful path, but some people don't want the peaceful path. They want violence. Give them more violence than they can handle (or at least the threat of it) until they beg for peace, THEN take the peaceful path.

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

That’s funny because I read a book (The Failure of Nonviolence) that pretty convincingly argues that no movement has truly accomplished its goals without either outright violence or relying on the threat of violence from aligned parties.

The whole "Punch a Nazi Day!" has two origins:

Captain America #1 - 12/20/1940 - A full YEAR before the US entered the war:

Right Wing Nazi Richard Spencer getting punched during a live interview:

https://youtu.be/aFh08JEKDYk

I'm 52 now so I don't punch anyone anymore. But back in the mid '80s to early '90s I was one of a few skatepunks that ran around with some ofe the local Unity Skins. We did a fair bit of nazi punching (and ax handling). This was toward the end of lace codes and wearing patches on bomber jackets. I'm not sure we changed anyone's mind but for a few years, no one was rocking confederate flags or white laces in the open. But I'm just some random guy online so take everything I say with a grain of salt.

(White, red, and yellow laces still give me pause. My teen came home one day wearing yellow laces and we had to have a talk. After some fact checking, and him explaining some stuff, I let it go and got a pair of yellows for my boots. Funny how things change over time and areas).

I'm not big on violence, and I don't enjoy hitting people, but I've done it a couple of times and I'm always willing to throw down with nazis. If we're not willing to defend ourselves and others, we might as well just hand them the keys and let them do whatever they want. That's gonna be a hard no for me.

Depends on the context, and how serious and violent the Nazi. If they're just an isolated idiot who isn't politically active and isn't stupid or thick-headed enough to actually follow through on their claimed beliefs, then violence isn't really justified. They're an idiot, but not a threat. The problem is with anymore more dedicated or crazy than that. Past that point, you immediately get to people who want to murder or enslave hundreds of millions. Thats not hyperbolic, that's literally the goal of Nazi beliefs, and a logical extention of almost every belief that stems out of it or is adjacent to it. In theory, yes, it'd be nice to be able to talk down people like this, or use existing systems of power to force them to places where there isn't a risk of them trying to murder or enslave people, but unfortunately, when you're talking about groups who don't respect human lives, the law, or anyone but their designated, arbitrary in-group, then those aren't always viable means. This is esspecially true if that person is already in a potition of power. Basically, if someone wants to kill you, you can't always wait for them to successfully aquire the means to do so before acting. This isn't hyperbole or metaphor, this is literally what we're talking about here. The problem is in drawing a line of who is an actual threat, and if there are other means to "disarm" them.

punching nazis is a meme at this point, which may sound good on paper, but in practice just mean the non-nazi going to jail and getting a criminal record

If you don't punch back they will simply continue to steamroll anyone they see as inferior.

I’m not gonna do punch anyone but I’d unrepentantly nullify any nazi punching trial jury i end up on. If the movement develops legs that carry it in the wrong direction, I’ll cease supporting it. For now, I’ll grin at the pain of the deplorables.