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Sorry if repost, my dad sent me (lemmy.world)

submitted 9 months ago by mecfs@lemmy.world to c/starwarsmemes@lemmy.world

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[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 0 points 9 months ago (7 children)

I would have rather the first order take the place of the rebellion and committed terrorist attacks in Luke’s paradise

I wish they had kidnapped Kylo and disillusioned him

The rest of 7 could have played out the same

For 8 get rid of Holdo, it’s stupid to bring in a character that out ranks everyone and serves only to delay the plot

You can have silly casino planet in First Order occupied space to show they grew since the last movie. Make Rose more relevant, have them looking for a Jedi temple for Finn. Have her so she previously worked as a librarian in Jedi archives before the first order destroyed it. Now she knows all these locations and things about the force even though she can’t use them. Luke is hiding because he blames himself for the people the First Order killed and he doesn’t want to pit anyone else in harm’s way, trains Rey but she still has dark visions and connects to Kylo. Have Rey turn evil, her and Kylo defeat Snoke (can be the same way) then take the first order to fight Luke because she knows where he is, the two of them together are enough to kill Luke

The last movie if you want Palpatine to return do it through Rey’s body and have her be the final boss. You can parallel 6 with the Skywalker turning good and saving Finn, this time have them team up against full Sith Lord Rey in the fight. Or have Finn take them on one by one while Rose stops their doomsday plans and Po deals with a space battle

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[–] sozesoze@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I actually liked TLJ as well. Like others said, I liked these Force Connection scenes with Rey and Kylo, I liked how it dispatched Snoke, dismissing the idea of yet another Star Wars conflict being controlled by an evil old wizard and instead gives sets the way for a new story by giving Kylo Ren the reigns of the new empire (which was thrown in the trash by JJ in ep 9, which is the gravest sin for me of that film), and gives a plausible take on the seduction to the dark side and to the light side. I know these ideas were poorly implemented e.g. the proposition Kylo makes to Rey "Hey, look, I've killed the evil emperor! Join me and we can take this whole thing over. Let's start by killing all your friends!". What a great offer, Kylo. But still I liked that this was something new and more than just a rehash.

What I also really loved is that not every character has to be related to the Skywalkers or another character of the other trilogies, again something JJ threw in the trash by ep 9. Why does Rey have to of some ancient magical lineage? I liked the idea that the force was running through people everywhere, even through slave kids on the casino planet. Everybody can be a hero, even if your parents or ancestors weren't. Wait, what's that, JJ? Everything was Palpatine all along? Never mind then.

[–] suction@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

To be fair to John Jonah, he had to work around the director of TLJ's narcissistic take on the 2nd episode of a trilogy, i.e. not giving a shit how the next director (whoever it was going to be at that time) could possibly come up with a good conclusion to two extremely disjointed prior movies. I mean it's neither director's fault, to be honest, it's Lucasfilm's, marketing this as "The next SW trilogy!!", not just "three more movies from that universe you guys seem to enjoy so much". Also he was too busy running a newspaper at the same time.

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[–] gerryflap@feddit.nl 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Idk, I'm nostalgic for the prequels because I grew up with them, but if they were released now and I had only seen the original trilogy I would've made the these comments about them too. Wat frustrates me the most about the sequels is that there's just no coherent plot. It's so obvious that everyone was just writing whatever without looking at the bigger picture. They could've went with this and actually gone somewhere. But 8 was just an exercise in doing everything the viewer didn't expect or want until it got way too frustrating without actually going anywhere and 9 was just a clusterfuck because it tried desperately to get an epic conclusion on a completely incoherent trilogy.

7 was already flawed, but if 8 and 9 had further established how the First Order got so large, who Snoke was, etc it could've been acceptable. I totally see the "Luke gets disillusioned and isolates himself" spin even if I'd prefer a "Luke slaps the shit out of everyone" story. It gave the new characters some space. But that space wasn't used.

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[–] Fleur__@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (9 children)

As someone not interested in star wars I can't wait for in ten 10 years time when suddenly liking the sequel trilogy is cool just like how the prequels were hated then became cool to like.

It's like poetry, it rhymes

[–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I'd be curious indeed what people in ten years will say about the sequel trilogy. But I have a strong feeling that it will still be disliked, because it did not have a vision and is a jigsaw mess unlike the prequels. The latter has a vision at least (thanks to Lucas still being at the helm), in spite of the cringey parts. The sequels did not have him and Disney just simply wants to milk the Star Wars IP which made sequels such a bore.

[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 0 points 9 months ago (4 children)

Just like the prequels

Universally hated but then kids who grew up with it became adults

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[–] Annoyed_Crabby@monyet.cc 0 points 9 months ago

There's actually pretty split reception regarding prequel, and at the current year it's liked because the amount of meme it generate.

I like the meme, i fell asleep watching the first ep, while i cringe hard when i watch 7 and 8.

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 0 points 9 months ago (3 children)

I think there's a difference between how they were hated and what parts people liked.

The prequels people hate because Jar-Jar, and some other comic relief characters, were annoying, and also (especially episode 1) how slow they can be. Overall, the stories were liked I think.

The sequels people like for the action and entertainment, but you totally have to ignore the story for them to not fall apart. It constantly contradicts itself (and the existing lessons, like the OP) and only works to weaken the universe.

Basically, their opposites to each other. I think the difference is people can come to enjoy the world of the prequels and get past the bad bits (or skip them), but the analysis and growing recognition of the failures of the sequels will only get larger with time as we spend more time with them.

[–] pjwestin@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago

It's not just Jar-Jar. The amount of CG and green screen was off-putting given how good Lucas was at practical effects, and those more modern techniques have aged much worse in a much shorter time frame. The movies may be slow, but the action sequences are actually quite long, drawn out, and pointless (the third act of Attack of the Clones is especially bad). The fight choreography was also extremely different, with the simple, grounded light saber fights being replaced with silly back-flips and summersaults.

There are also odd story elements that seem to contradict the OT; why did Obi-Wan say Yoda trained him? How did the Jedi go from being a powerful peace-keeping known throughout the galaxy go a myth in 20 years? Why did Leah claim she could remember her mother? (I'm sure Lucas came up with explanations for these things, but they still stand out.) All in all, they are a huge tone-shift from their predecessors, in both storytelling and filmmaking.

In contrast, the sequel films are able to emulate the original trilogy much more faithfully in terms of practical effects and set design. The real problem was, where Lucas over-developed his prequel trilogy for 30 years, Disney under-developed their sequels, with no plan for where the story should go. Abrahams created a basic retread of the first film, Johnson threw everything out in the second, and the third film was just desperately trying to write itself out of a corner. Those movies had no idea where they wanted to go, so they went nowhere.

[–] volodya_ilich@lemm.ee 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Episode 1 is slow?! It starts with jedis being betrayed by the trade federation, escaping the ship and going to naboo, rescuing jarjar and meeting the gungans, crossing the planet's core to get to Theed, rescuing Padmé and escaping to tatooine, winning the podrace and going to coruscant, then finally returning to naboo to end the invasion of the trade federation, all in one film. How can it be more packed with action and events? Certainly more action and event packed than Luke spending 1h of the film in a swamp

[–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago

The sequels people like for the action and entertainment

I have the same feeling but for prequels.

I never took Star Wars very seriously and I always see the story and lore as being a fun adventure. But the problem with the sequels is that it doesn't have the direction and vision. I don't know about the others, but for me that made the sequels not click.

[–] zipzoopaboop@lemmynsfw.com 0 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Naw, prequels had big fans back in the day. No one likes the sequels

[–] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago

I like the sequels despite their issues (which the prequels also had a lot), save for Ep. 9, which seems to be a reaction to all the bad faith critiques made towards the sequels.

[–] LANIK2000@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago

Aye, I'd compare it to pineapple pizza, in the sense that many very vocal people love to hate on it, but its inclusion in every god damn restaurant speaks volumes of its actual popularity.

Once on a trip with my classmates I ordered it and they all gave me shit of it. Well too bad I knew that everyone who happened to be present actually liked it, so I threw that right back at em! Nobody was saying shit after. People just learn that shitting on something is the social norm.

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[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Episode 7: Derivative but fun

Episode 8: Pure trash

Episode 9: Desperately trying to piece together the plot

[–] hellothere@sh.itjust.works 0 points 9 months ago (2 children)

How anyone thinks 9 is better than 8 is beyond me.

[–] AlolanYoda@mander.xyz 0 points 9 months ago

I've always said that the worst thing that 9 did was completely destroy any excitement for Star Wars in an instant.

Prior to 9 releasing, people didn't like 8 and were already souring on 7, but there was still discourse, people caught up on Star Wars news, people were excited for the new content.

After 9, the excitement dropped like a brick. It was the closure of a trilogy in one of the most profitable IPs in the world. There was still more content planned to come out soon iirc (the shows, and I think there was talk of more movies), so it's not like people stopped caring due to the lack of content. Nobody I knew was interested in discussing fan theories or analyzing the movies (except to rag on them, I suppose). It was as if millions of voices cried out in terror... And were suddenly silenced.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (4 children)

9 is just generic. It's mediocre. 8 is an active train wreck. God, I remember sitting in the theatre and being baffled by the opening 'conversation' between Hux and Poe. I legit thought it might have been another one of those fan vids that they show in the Alamo Theatre before the actual movie began, despite the opening crawl.

[–] hellothere@sh.itjust.works 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

"Somehow", lightspeed skipping, 3PO not being able to translate from sith, the ancient dagger that is also the shape of the crashed death star from a highly specific angle, Palpatine fucks, whatever a diad is, 10,000 star destroyers.

I'm not pretending that 8 is a masterpiece, it isn't, and it's worse than any of the OT, but at least Johnson tried to do something to keep star wars at a galactic scale.

The worst bit of 9 is how small it makes star wars. Everything comes down to a tale of two families - Palpatine and Skywalker - in a way that nullifies everyone else's involvement. For a story that spans a literal galaxy, having it come down to those two families, twice, is terrible writing.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I mean, I agree with all of your criticisms of 9, I just don't agree that they make it worse than 8.

I mean, hell, "Finn immediately wakes up, loses faith in the rebellion"? The slow-motion chase through space? "Union negotiations" ha ha so funny? Carrie Poppins surviving for no real reason except perhaps to 'subvert expectations'? 3000 attempted coups of Poe and the uninspired leadership of Admiral Replacement? "I'm going to let you out of the brig, not because you've learned anything, but because committing mutiny is why I keep you around"? Hyperspace jumps can now be weaponized? Hoth 2 (this time it's salt) after an emergency landing with one ship? Twelve people survive out of the entire fleet so let's celebrate?

The ENTIRE Canto Blight nonsense, top to bottom? Especially the weird shoehorned animal rights bit? Benicio del Toro the arms dealer who exists for ten seconds (waste of a fantastic actor) and leaves on the stunning line "Maybe"? Grand Leader Whoever in a bathrobe talking about how much 'spunk' young Rey has and then dying in his first few minutes seen in person? Whatsherface falling in love with Finn over the space of a day or two and then managing to race her land speeder faster than Finn's, so she can catch up to him as he's going full throttle on a suicide mission and then save his life by... ramming him at full speed and wrecking both of their vehicles right on top of the enemy?

Luke casually throwing away the lightsaber like it was a piece of moldy bread? "The Jedi Scriptures"? Luke drinking blue milk fresh from the teat? Not even acknowledging (or barely acknowledging, I don't remember) Chewie coming back to see him, one of his oldest friends? The Porgs? Fuck. "Reach out and feel the force"? Luke decides to murder his innocent nephew in the middle of the night despite being such an idealist that he thought Darth Vader could come back from his atrocities? Casually brushing off his shoulder after getting his force projection blasted by the not-AT-ATs?

I'm probably missing so goddamn much. I'm not revisiting it. I saw it once, and once was one time too many.

There are only two things that 8 gave us that were good - the force bond on screen (and even that was tormented by the sheer awkwardness of it, especially asking Ben Swolo to put on a towel) and the almost Nietzschean philosophy embraced by Kylo Ren as a more articulate envisioning of the Dark Side. I do wonder if that was connected to KOTOR 2 or just one of those parallel evolution things.

[–] hellothere@sh.itjust.works 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

As said, I don't think Last Jedi is a good film, so my defence is going to be pretty half arsed, but just a few points I'd like to challenge.

Finn joined the resistance because he witnessed an atrocity as a trooper and didn't want to be a bad guy. He got disillusioned and questioned whether the resistance were actually good because they had to do things that also killed lots of people. He ultimately decides it's justified. I'd argue that characters overcoming struggles and having a bit of depth is a good thing.
Carrie Poppins was a bad, bad, choice, agreed.
Poe leading a mutiny because he didn't know what was going on, because he'd been demoted, because he didn't follow orders, demonstrates that while he may be a great pilot, he's far too impulsive and his own actions are what holds him back. This shows where his character can, and needs to, grow if he's ever going to be at the top table.
Canto continues with the strong anti-imperialism of the original trilogy. The purpose of that entire piece is as a commentary on the military industrial complex, and how it has conflicted goals as it benefits more from continued war than peace.
"The animal rights bit" - dude, the culmination of RotJ was the Empire being beaten by teddy bears, this again is a constant theme throughout the OT, that exploitation occurs everywhere within an imperialist system.
it's been 30 years since we last saw Luke, and even then his training was incomplete, because he'd run away impulsively to get back to Han and Leia. Luke is flawed - my biggest peeve with certain parts of the old EU was how some authors painted him as almost christ like and perfect, perfect is boring - and ultimately failed to rebuild the academy. He fucked up so badly that, yes, he misunderstood a vision, and thought Ben was going to go to the dark side. He then caused this, couldn't forgive himself, and lived in self-imposed exile as penance. Of course he didn't want the lightsabre that he'd already given up. Wouldn't it be even weirder for him to be all "oh, thank you so much for giving me back the sabre I purposefully discarded after I tried to murder my nephew and turned him away from the light, it would look great on my wall!"
don't kink shame blue titty drinking! 😂

Again, was it a great film? No, far from it. But at least it tried to give depth to characters, had them tackle challenges, and overcome them and/or grow through failure.

With Palpatine coming back, somehow, in 9, it completely destroys Anakin's redemption, because it turns out that he didn't actually kill Palpatine after all, so no final great act, no meaningful sacrifice, Vader dies for nothing.

For all its faults, and there are many, nothing Last Jedi did destroyed the main character of the fanchise's arc quite like that.

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[–] dubyakay@lemmy.ca 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Episode 7: derivative boredom

Episode 8: I like thi---WHAT THE HECK IS HAPPENING? WHY??

Episode 9: JJ desperately trying to piece together a plot

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago

"Poe commits mutiny for the 12th time; learns nothing."

[–] MrSpArkle@lemmy.ca 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

9 was a reaction to the challenge of actually having to tell a story. The challenge was not accepted.

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[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 0 points 9 months ago (3 children)

1-6 exist

Nothing else

[–] threelonmusketeers@sh.itjust.works 0 points 9 months ago

4-6 exist

Others exist too, but they are for the most part inferior.

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