If using ChatGPT for tests is cheating, I’d argue calculators are cheating for math.. it’s just another tool at people’s disposal as far as I’m concerned.
this post was submitted on 15 Jun 2025
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It's not cheating, it's vibe studying
Three magic words - "Open Note Exam"
Students prep their own notes (usually limited to "X pages"), take them into the exam, gets to use them for answering questions.
Tests application and understanding over recall. If students AI their notes, they will be useless.
Been running my exams as open note for 3 years now - so far so good. Students are happy, I don't have to worry about cheating, and the university remains permanently angry because they want everything to be coursework so everyone gets an AI A ^_^
we're doomed
Actually caught, or caught with a "ai detection" software?
Surprise motherfuckers. Maybe don't give grant money to LLM snakeoil fuckers, and maybe don't allow mass for-profit copyright violations.
So is it snake oil, or dangerously effective (to the point it enables evil)?
If ChatGPT can effectively do the work for you, then is it really necessary to do the work? Nobody saying to go to the library and find a book instead of letting a search engine do the work for you. Education has to evolve and so does the testing. A lot of things GPT’s can’t do well. Grade on that.
The "work" that LLMs are doing here is "being educated".
Like, when a prof says "read this book and write paper answering these questions", they aren't doing that because the world needs another paper written. They are inviting the student to go on a journey, one that is designed to change the person who travels that path.
Education needs to change too. Have students do something hands on.
Hands on, like engage with prior material on the subject and formulate complex ideas based on that...?
Sarcasm aside, asking students to do something in lab often requires them to have gained an understanding of the material so they can do something, an understanding they utterly lack if they use AI to do their work. Although tbf this lack of understanding in-person is really the #1 way we catch students who are using AI.
Class discussion. Live presentations with question and answer. Save papers for supplementing hands on research.
Have you seen the size of these classrooms? It's not uncommon for lecture halls to seat 200+ students. You're thinking that each student is going to present? Are they all going to create a presentation for each piece of info they learn? 200 presentations a day every day? Or are they each going to present one thing? What does a student do during the other 199 presentations? When does the teacher (the expert in the subject) provide any value in this learning experience?
There's too much to learn to have people only learning by presenting.
Have you seen the cost of tuition? Hire more professors and smaller classes.
Anyways, undergrad isn’t even that important in the grand scheme of things. Let people cheat and let that show when they apply for entry level jobs or higher education. If they can be successful after cheating in undergrad, then does it even matter?
When you get to grad school and beyond is what really matters. Speaking from a US perspective.
Maybe we need a new way to approach school. I don't think I agree with turning education into a competition where the difficulty is curved towards the most competitive creating a system that became so difficult that students need to edge each other out any way they can.
My dad had oral exams, we can go back to that
On his knees?
That was an other occasion, mom gave him a passing grade.
I guess what I don’t understand is what changed? Is everything homework now? When I was in school, even college, a significant percentage of learning was in class work, pop quizzes, and weekly closed book tests. How are these kids using LLMs so much for class if a large portion of the work is still in the classroom? Or is that just not the case anymore? It’s not like ChatGPT can handwrite an essay in pencil or give an in person presentation (yet).
University was always guided self-learning, at least in the UK. The lecturers are not teachers. The provide and explain material, but they're not there to hand-hold you through it.
University education is very different to what goes on at younger ages. It has to be when a class is 300 rather than 30 people.
WTF? 300? There were barely 350 people in my graduating class of high school and that isn’t a small class for where I am from. The largest class size at my college was maybe 60. No wonder people use LLMs. Like, that’s just called an auditorium at that point, how could you even ask a question? Self-guided isn’t supposed to mean “solo”.
You can ask questions in auditorium classes.
The 300+ student courses typically were high volume courses like intro or freshman courses.
Second year cuts down significantly in class size, but also depends on the subject.
3rd and 4th year courses, in my experience, were 30-50 students
You can ask questions in auditorium classes.
I am going to be honest; I don’t believe you. I genuinely don’t believe that in a class with more people than minutes in the session that a person could legitimately have time to interact with the professor.
The 60 person class I referred to was a required lecture portion freshman science class with a smaller lab portion. That we could ask questions in the lab was the only reason 60 people was okay in the lecture and even then the professor said he felt it was too many people.
Your disbelief is strange.
People occasionally ask questions in lectures. Anything they are confused about gets covered off in tutorials later. Lecturers and tutors both have office hours where further questions are asked.
If a student has learning difficulties or special requirements there is pastoral care available for that.
It's really not mysterious.
Depends on the course. Some are very assignment heavy and some have 2 in person test grades for the entire grade. As a rule, there's more of the former than the latter.
I do agree we should go back to the 90s/00s way of just having weekly quizzes and tests in person though.
Nah.
Let the workers tear each other apart in an effort to serve.
I like seeing them suffer at this point because they all brought this on themselves.
And thats just the ones that were stupid enough to get caught realistically I think this is more like 5% instead of 0.5%
In some regard I don’t think it should be considered cheating. Don’t beat me up yet, I’m old and think AI sucks at most things.
AI typically outputs crap. So why does this use of a new and widely available tech get called out differently?
Using Google (in the don’t be evil timeframe) wasn’t cheating when open book was permitted. Using the text book was cheating on a closed book test. In some cases using a calculator was cheating.
Is it cheating if you write a paper completely on your own and use spell check and grammar check within word? What if a grammarly type extension is used? It’s a slippery slope that advances with technology.
I remember testing and assignments that were designed to make it harder to cheat, show your work, for math type approaches. Quizzes and short essays that make demonstration of the subject matter necessary.
Why doesn’t the education environment adapt to this? For writing assignments, maybe they need to be submitted with revision history so the teacher can see it wasn’t all done in one go via an LLM.
The quick answer responses are somewhat like using Wikipedia for a school paper. Don’t site Wikipedia and don’t use the generated text for anything but a base understanding of the topic. Now go use all the sources these provided, to actually do the assignment.
Chatgpt output isn't crap anymore. I teach introductory physics at a university and require fully written out homework, showing math steps, to problems that I've written. I wrote my own homework many years ago when chegg blew up and all major textbook problems were on chegg.
Just two years ago, chatgpt wasn't so great at intro physics and math. It's pretty good now, and shows all the necessary steps to get the correct answer.
I do not grade my homework on correctness. Students only need to show me effort that they honestly attempted each problem for full credit. But it's way quicker for students to simply upload my homework pdf to chatgpt and copy down the output than give it their own attempt.
Of course, doing this results in poor exam performance. Anecdotally, my exams from my recent fall semester were the lowest they've ever been. I put two problems on my final that directly came from from my homework, one of them being the problem that made me realize roughly 75% of my class was chatgpt'ing all the homework as chatgpt isn't super great at reading angles from figures, and it's like these students had never even seen a problem like it before.
I'm not completely against the use of AI for my homework. It could be like a tutor that students ask questions to when stuck. But unfortunately that takes more effort than simply typing "solve problems 1 through 5, showing all steps, from this document" into chatgpt.
Personally, I think we have homework the wrong way around. Instead of teaching the subject in class and then assign practice for home, we should be learn the subject at home and so the practice in class.
I always found it easier to read up on something, get an idea of a concept by my self. But when trying to solve the problems I ran into questions, but no one was there I could ask. If the problem were to be solved in class I could ask fellow students or the teacher.
Plus if the kids want to learn the concept from ChatGPT or Wikipedia that's fine by me as long as they learn it somehow.
Of course this does not apply to all concepts, subjects and such but as a general rule I think it works.
I'm shocked. Shocked! Well, not that shocked.
Ultimately it seems pretty dumb. If you're not going to actually learn while you're there, why bother? University isn't mandatory.
That was actually my biggest disappointment with my degree - the course didn't teach anywhere near enough for my tastes. However I would hope that I was an outlier in that respect!
Most people aren't paying for the education. They are paying for the degree. The education they could get for £1.50 in late fees at the library. This is not something new.
Seems like an awful lot of debt to go into for something that's really not that valuable. If the certificate is the goal then a masters or PhD will end up being what's needed and faking your way through undergrad won't do much good.
This is a story ask about the UK, not the US, though I imagine the situation is similar.
I don't understand what point you're trying to make. I know it's about the UK..?
Who's going into debt to be at university in the UK?
Here you go: "Students in England now graduate with average debt of £53,000, data shows" https://piefed.social/post/961417 https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/jun/20/students-in-england-graduate-average-debt-increase