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I use X11 over Wayland on KDE Neon for RustDesk compatibility. The Wayland support for that application is still in Beta from what I understand.
Are there other reasons why I should keep X11? I am on AMD Ryzen 9 5950X paired with a RTX 3090 FE on 570-open drivers, for reference.
There is no place for Fascists within the Open Source and Free Software communities or the society at large. You will never fester your poisonous roots here. Go back to the cave you crawled out from where no sunlight can reach.
NAZI! DEVS! FUCK! OFF! 💯
Wayland is gay?! I need to get off my ass and finally switch then!
Can confirm, having my different refresh rate monitors play nice with each other is extremely homosexual.
..... Does this imply that Wayland has a penis?
Asking... For science, or something, I dunno what is going on.
Now I hate Gnome
But:
Gnome programs, and Gnome itself, is pretty great.
You don't have to shit on a project just because you don't use their stuff or like something else.
Gnome in general is undeniably made competently by competent and talented people. If it wasn't, it would break a lot more.
Those competent and talented people also managed to make extremely bad choices at every turn, and seem ideologically opposed to the idea of customization, resulting in an environment that is fundamentally painful to use unless you very specifically fit the box of what they expect users to be like.
It sort of feels like an Apple product, in that sense. Very well-made, but god forbid you don't want to do things exactly as they say you should
I made peace with this forced transition. I went from using one of the available standards (X11) to retrocomputing (X11).
I tried Wayland and what a mess... But I get it. Everything changes, and tech moves on.
As for me and my needs, as long as X11 does its job, I'll keep on using it.
I've followed some of the discussions around the need to have a more modern framework for current graphical systems. I'm pretty confident devs have their hearts and minds in the right place. It's just that Wayland doesn't work for me.
When was the last time your tried Wayland? I've had no issues with it whatsoever.
Personally, the main thing keeping me on Xorg is support for global keybinds. Plasma and GNOME both have support for the XDG portal which mostly addresses this, but apps still needs to adopt it. Plasma also has a workaround for global keybindings, but I don't use that. Sway doesn't have any good solutions for this last time I checked.
Overall, I like Wayland more but I need support for global keybindings for at least a couple programs I regularly use.
Same. Would be curious to know what problems this has caused any actual normal users (not weirdo fascist tech bros).
They probably won’t get specific.
But I will say that the comment here is a quintessential example of an anti Wayland/SystemD complaint.
Nothing specific ever. Just “it’s a mess and buggy and slow”.
This being said by me making this comment the original poster might come up with the some specifics just because they feel called out.
It's not like X11 will disappear immediately after that. People who need it just have to switch from Gnome to a cooler window manager 🤷
It's really not a big deal.
From my experience, I guesstimate X11 will be around for another 20 years after that and maybe some hillbilly will even make a Gnome fork that still supports X11. Then there will be X12 one day 😆
Wayland is basically X12 in many ways
switch from Gnome to a cooler window manager 🤷
I think that's easier for us to say, who actually do use something cooler. But for those whose workflow is messed up by this, I understand why they're upset. But yeah, it's time to move into the future, for real. High time.
You'd think they would be used to it since every update ruins their workflow too.
What? The last major change to the gnome workflow was going from vertical to horizontal workspaces, and that was several years ago.
Mostly just trash talking how so much basic functionality is in add-ons that break frequently with updates.
Is it so surprising that the mindset that makes people unable to face changes in one area of their lives also makes them unable to face changes in other areas?
All these "concerned" comments about systemd, wayland, etc, always seemed dog whistling to me. I have critiques about these projects, but the specific things this specific type of people says always comes coded in some form of racism/transphobic/mysoginistic rethoric. Just changed from gamergate to linuxgate.
So i'm not surprised that they turned mask off like this.
Look at any anti-systemd channel, the comments are always the worst thing ever. Some lkml reading channels have these comments too.
The systemd and the Wayland debate both feel very similar.
At the end of the day the old method of using init scripts was becoming inadequate and needed to change
Wayland debate seems the same, switching to Wayland has been talked about for over a decade. The change has been coming and frankly I was expecting it a lot earlier
Whats neat about linux though is if you have nothing better to do and are knowledgeable enough to bitch about all of this; then you also have the technical prowess to standup an install of your favorite distro and get it to use X instead of Wayland and init scripts instead of systemd
For me as an enduser I hope Wayland enables more modern features to be delivered more easily as X has felt old for a while.
I'm just confused. Like, how would someone even connect Linux software to those topics?
I totally believe you that they do, and I'm not actually interested in hearing messed up shit, I'm just...
If you asked me which topics were unlikely to have bizarre vile messaging I would have listed window managers and init systems pretty high in the list.
You need to think of the kind of people that are interested in nerdy computing topics. Regular people that just want to make something nice to share with the world, sure, but also incels, toxic masculinity proponents, etc.
They're mostly able to hide, because like you point out, computer science and related topics are mostly apolitical; when you make scary changes, however, those same latter people can't help themselves but to blame the villainous "They."
Ugh. people can suck sometimes. I can comprehend the concept of bigotry and all that, but it just deeply does not make sense to me. And I think I'm ultimately okay with not being able to empathize with actual hatred.
It makes me sad that some of the "nerdy" people in these spaces would join with the very people that would gladly throw them under the bus or use them as minority fodder, but as I've seen with experts in science, high intelligence in one area doesn't mean you are capable of critical thinking.
ETA: to be clear, I'm not saying we should ignore scientists and experts, just that specialized expertise ≠ general expertise.
"How am I going to be racist today? OOH, the parallel command is pretty woke"
This read like a story from some fictional universum I don't follow.
This probably has a lot to do with the new DOA XServer fork being "anti-DEI" (pro-discrimination). When these slimy shitweasels go out and vice signal about how bigoted they are, they congregate around it and form a new harassment campagin because they have no life.
Sorry you're getting harassed. I hope you can take solace in the fact that these little pissbabies lead miserable lives.
As a commenter on that post says, this sort of talk is also common in the comments of Phoronix articles. The commenter says they've completely stopped supporting Phoronix since it's clear that Michael enables this behavior by not moderating it (the least he could do is disable commenting; the type of people that are in the Phoronix comments are the absolute worst). It's been festering for a very long time, unfortunately. Click any Phoronix article that's older than a day and check the negativity. Worse, click an article about a controversial topic like X11/Wayland/Systemd/bcachefs/KDE/GNOME/etc. and it's just a shitshow.
I've been seeing it to a lesser degree here as well. I don't know what it is about X11 that really riles up the conspiracy theorists.
YES. Phoronix articles are good but the comment sections are insane. There are a few very vocal users that would have been banned on any reasonably moderated forum, and they largely chase out the reasonable people.
Also, occasionally there is an article about CoC or something that is obviously going to bring the loonies out of the woodwork. The comment section will get closed, but not until after the giant flamewar has gone on for a bit. Michael has to know that's going to happen and make the decision not to close it immediately when he makes the post.
Is this an effect of the microplastics in our brains?
It's the effect of a persistent decades-long disinformation campaign perpetrated by those who wish to destabilize western democracies which has been signal-boosted by naive (or maliciously designed) recommendation algorithms on social media platforms.