this post was submitted on 15 Feb 2024
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Italy's? Dont you mean Greece's? Italians(romans) were just wannabe greeks, greekaboos. Literally every aspect of roman society is copied from the greeks. And luckily for us, greeks were one of the first people who started writing down shit, in a language we can understand, so there is no reason to go further back.
Twitch that is some damn good bait
If Greeks wanted the glory they should've beaten the Romans.
Greeks did beat the romans. Imagine if the US militaraly/politically declined and Canada became the world's super power. Is Canada a thing? Not really, it is America's hat(if we exclude the weirdo frenchies). Canadians are culturally americans.
Do you think they watch canadians movies in the cinemas?
The romans might had military defeated the greeks but the greeks culturally dominated the romans. Romans took a lot of greeks to Rome and made learning the greek language "the fancy" thing that all educated and cultured romans expected to know.
Thats how eventually the Eastern Roman Empire(or Byzantine Empire, as the filthy westerners try to rebrand it), became more and more greek.
>Gets conquered and becomes a literal subject to the other state
>"Heh well we actually won because you like our culture"
Bit of a cope, innit
I mean it's an interesting thing. What does it mean to win? The Greeks had a very strong soft power and even while they were subjects they received special treatment because the Romans believed the Greeks were civilized.
In a different but similar way, the Jews ended up conquering the Roman Empire. After the Jewish rebellion a few decades after the death of Christ, the Romans sent a large army to take back Jerusalem.
They ended up sick and tired of the constant issues with the Jews so they made Judaism illegal and scattered the Jews they could. What was the end result of this?
Certain Jews who considered themselves Christian (which up until this point was a sect of Judaism) did their best to distance themselves from the Jews. They made their religion a little easier for Roman gentiles to understand and resonate with.
Eventually this religion scattered throughout the empire along with the Jews and became the state religion.
In an attempt to stamp out an annoying religion in the Middle East, the Romans inadvertently created the conditions for that annoying religion to take over the empire.
What does it mean to win? I'm not saying this to cope, like you pointed out. It's just an interesting discussion. And to bring it back full circle - the New Testament was written in Greek.
Paul, the writer of half of the New Testament was a Greek Jew. The Greeks once again influence the cultural fate of the Roman Empire.
Instructions unclear turned the Romans into Greeks.
On the other hand, Greeks clung onto the Roman identity for a really long time. And I mean even after being taken over by Ottomans.
Eastern Roman Identity. Long live Basileus kai Autokratōr Rhōmaíōn
Greek detected, opinion rejected.
In your face, Plato!
Its true. Many people believe that anal sex was invented by the italians, but that too was invented in ancient Greece. The romans merely took it and adapted it for use with women.
https://youtu.be/tesNuOg1C84?si=HsmlgBmTkFiSsmpj
I hear you're a racist now, Father!
If we go back far enough, most countries in Eurasia today belong to Iraq (Mesopotamia) following that logic
due to pedigree collapse, i claim ancestral rights to everything...
But if you go all the way back, all countries belong to Jeb!
Didn't human life evolve in modern day Ethiopian? So technically, every country belongs to Ethiopians and their descendants.
But since all humans are Ethiopian descendants, it should be all good in the neighborhood
Well maybe culturally influenced but Mesopotamia didnt "conquer" Greece. Well Persia conquered greek cities in western Anatolia(Turkey) but that happened later on. As i wrote, before classical Greece, you are basically entering a prehistoric era from which we only have myths and archeological artifacts. What little text we have from back then is either too limited or incomprehensible or non historically accurate(myths).
As far as Greece is concerned, there was the Minoan civilization(in the island of Crete and other islands), whose writing(linear A) has basically nothing in common with (ancient) greek. We still havent decyphered Linear A. They are the basis for the whole Atlantis myth and they were probably destroyed by a tsunami(Santorini's volcano going boom).
After them we had the Mycenaean civilization, which is a greek mainland one. They used linear B, which was between linear A and greek. We have mostly decyphered linear B. Myceneans are the trojan war greeks.
After that we had or maybe didnt have the "dorian invasion"(northern greeks? fucking/conquering the Myceneans??? noone knows), which caused cultural changes and many centuries of "dark age". And only after that we had the classical greek city states and the start of history.
History and national identities are very messy. And once you start going prehistoric, it is even more ridiculous. Which is why every country has artificially created its own national myth/history.
Does the Dorian period occur at the same time as The Bronze Age Collapse?
Yes.
I looked further into The Mycenaean Collapse, and it seems that the current archeological consensus seems to be that The Dorian Invasion didn't actually happen.
https://youtu.be/s-J8VGFG1Bg?si=eji1F0V-Klne0m2k