this post was submitted on 21 Feb 2024
166 points (90.3% liked)

No Stupid Questions

40822 readers
846 users here now

No such thing. Ask away!

!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)


Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.

All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.



Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.

Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.



Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.



Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That's it.



Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.



Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.

On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.

If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.



Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.

If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.



Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.



Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

Let everyone have their own content.



Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here. This includes using AI responses and summaries.



Credits

Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!

The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Tons of protests going on everywhere against Israel, but not a single government has changed their stance

(page 2) 49 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

That's a great question. What I would say is the wheels of justice turn painfully slowly.

I am sure Antony Blinken is well aware of domestic concerns over the wellbeing of Gazans, the unfortunate reality is any big decision against or at Israel will come with negative consequences.

The path of least resistance might be allowing the Israeli's to squeeze out their own leader democratically. Is that the best way? Well, probably? Not always?

A pacifist may look to the Vietnam War, Libya or Iran and say action was injustice, an activist might look at the Rwandan Genocide and say pacifism was injustice. Diplomacy has to do it's thing.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Depends who's protesting and what's the support for the protests among general population. The problem with most of the protests you see is that the people that do the protesting are the same people that oppose the government. So yeah, no government is going to react to protests done by people that don't vote for it, no matter how big. If the actual people that got the government elected protest or support the protest then they listen. Of course most of the time people know what they are voting and the government is doing exactly what it promised so they will not protest.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They do alot more then bitching about something on social media and expecting that to change anything...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Both are "bitching". Both are raising awareness. Both don't seem to be changing/doing anything.

Almost like peaceful protesting doesn't always work.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Better than staying inside and not doing shit. It shows community activism.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Read up on the civil rights movements or how women got the right to vote.

Protests 100% work

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago

History shows that protests worked either when the vast majority of the population striked, or when they were violent.

I am quite disillusioned that gathering in a single square for a few hours with some signs will ever change anything.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

There were plenty of less peaceful groups too. So I guess they 100% worked too.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

Note, 100% can work, but don't work 100%.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

Only when there's enough people that it's bordering revolution. Note how many national guard were not only deployed, but actually found themselves in gun battles (over civil rights), it was nuts by today's norms.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Farmers protested all over Europe recently and got what they wanted, which is to get rid of latest environmental regulations (that would have enforced an end of subsidies on diesel, reduction of nitrates use in fertilisers etc).

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

Absolutely, they provide the police with bodies they can beat with impunity.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I recently looked up the history of a 1969 civil rights protest at the college I went to, and found a newspaper article tracing changes at the school right through to the current day.

A big difference is they were protesting decisions at a university. It may have been a general movement across the country but it was really a large local protest against a local entity. The protests against Israel are generally not in Israel, and even if the goal is to change one or more supporting country’s policy, the protests really aren’t that big relative to the whole country or its government.

I think the protests are still too small, given the scale at which they’re trying to influence a change

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

It depends on the amount of violence and monetary damage.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

Just like boycotts, you need to have many many people joining and supporting the cause to actually make an impact within the world and the community, otherwise it’s not very impactful and govs could easily do any to prevent it from happening aka silencing ppl.

Though that saying, ppl shouldn’t be made to feel guilty for not doing so, if certain circumstances prevent them to do so eg disability, addiction, lack of options etc etc cuz unfortunately in the world we live in today, capitalism plays a huge part in our society today, therefore there’s is no “truly” ethical consumption in the world we are in today.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Depends. If they're focused on specific demands and done at the right time combined with direct advocacy, they can do a lot to affect change.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

No, protests can't enact policy in democratic countries. Voting can, boycotts can, and strikes can. You can organize all of the three as part of a protest, but it's a lot more work than shouting with a fancy sign, and a lot less fun to do.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It works when a government already sympathetic to the cause is in office

Protest movements against hostile state apparati usually have to get a bit more....intense, before they get change.

Difference between the civil rights movement and the Egyptian Arab Spring uprising

[–] [email protected] 96 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

if protests did nothing, they wouldn't be forbidden in China and Russia and every other autocratic society

[–] [email protected] 54 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Also there's the American protest, where the opposing political party mounts a counter protests and politicians let them fight amongst each other. Then there's the French protest, where they set the barbecue on the tram tracks and walk in milions for days.

Not all protests are equal

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

i'm pretty sure you could crowdsource an assassination and get more results,.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

with or without guns?

[–] [email protected] 64 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Only ones that can materially disrupt things.

A protest with a permit or with permission is a parade.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

Some, but not all.

Just remember, if the protest is peaceful and easy to ignore then nothing will probably get done. You must disrupt the flow.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

It depends if you live in a fascist regime or a democratic one.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You need to use your protests as recruiting grounds for more direct pressure on your government. You should establish or join a lobbying organization and recruit volunteers. You will have these people write letters to the editor, solicit for donations, call and write to your representatives, and schedule in-person meetings with government officials.

Standing on the street and yelling by itself is not enough, you need to become a part of the establishment to affect change, but you can grow your organization by finding people who have proven to be motivated. A protest is a great place for that sort of thing.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

You've summed up the key take-aways I got from my youthful protests of days gone by. 1) Teach the newbies about the current protest issue and possibly related issues. 2) Recruit. 3) Make contacts. 4) ORGANIZE. Not everyone can lead or organize for an issue, but everyone can be a helper. Your local government officials don't care about your single voice, but they DO care if you represent a block of voters that are going to vote based on policy X. A petition with a bunch of signatures means more than a single letter, but an organized group with many letters and petitions and phone calls all identifying as voting members of Anti-Fraking-Club (or whatever), which meets every Y days and wants new regulation Z .... that will get more attention. It might not be enough to combat the deep pockets on the other side, but enumerating the members of an organized voting block is better than noting some rabble rousers in the streets.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Nope.

The world is fucked.

Only thing that could possibly turn the tides would be a massive return to the guillotine.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Preceding the Iraq War, there was the largest worldwide protest in history to try to stop the war from happening.

Protests are helpful at showing public sentiment, but they rarely change policy.

MLK was assassinated after he started focusing on class issues. The FBI tried to threaten him with an anonymous letter telling him to kill himself.

The Stop Cop City protestors in Atlanta are being charged with terrorism.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Fred Hampton. Gandhi. Leftist governments that won’t bend to fascist/capitalist countries’ bidding. Edward Snowden, Julian Assange. Real threats are “reasoned with,” and if that fails, neutralized.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes because:

  1. There is a visible action taking place. You are standing for something you believe in. This gives other people who may lack confidence or opportunity something to notice.

  2. Those in authority cannot claim what they do is an unopposed position.

  3. Those you are protesting on behalf of, even if they are going through hell, know that someone somewhere is not prepared to let their circumstances go unnoticed.

  4. Those you are protesting against know that someone sees what they are doing.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Maybe if the person who’s actions are being protested against are reasonable. When protesters are met by military forces and detained in trumped up charges of terrorism, then they don’t work until there looks to be consequences for the person/group being protested.

As a rule of thumb if you have the military on your side protests get crushed. Look at Egypt for an example of what happens once the military gets involved.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain](The Battle of Blair Mountain) is a good example on the US end. Striking US mine workers crushed by the US military on US soil. You could argue that it was one of many events that led to labor protections, but it wasn’t the inviting event and those protections came more than a decade later.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

Yes, mobilization is a strong message to government in democracy. It says we do not like the direction, we are going and we will vote you out or cause more disruption. In my town we mobilized in front of our MP's office due to the partial privatization of medcial aid. Our MP ended up changing his vote and siding against his party, as it was the will of the people. Participation in democracy is a powerful tool.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

Protests generally don't change policy, although politicians may use them as justification for something they already want to push through.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Sometimes. It depends on a lot of factors. Protests can convince people to change their mind, it has happened in the past and does happen on some situations these days as well. Protests can also have negative effects as well, considering things like where, when, and how a protest is carried out can either change people's minds or entrench them even more in their own opinion.

At the end of the day, the outcome of a protest is just as unpredictable as what a person will do in ten years. Or even the next hour, really.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hmmm, ig it works if people in charge are actually someone who are willing to accept their mistakes and change their minds, which does not seem to be the case for the situation in question

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

Protests rarely have a fast rate of changing political situations. Take a look at the suffragette movement. There is also a big difference of success between peaceful and violent protests.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There have been more criticisms from governments as time has gone on - Brazil in particular has been in the news today for it.

South Africa has taken actions as well. And even if these two countries didn't do this because of protests, they help to encourage protests in other places, to help to change more minds.

You can never know exactly what a protest accomplishes, that's one of the ways they are so easy to minimize.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What did brazil say? Didn’t hear anything about this

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Thnks a lot!

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Only if it hurts their bottom line

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Or if guillotines are involved, ask the French.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

It goes it goes it goes

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Netanyahu and also Trump to some extent have made guillotine seem pretty reasonable

load more comments
view more: ‹ prev next ›