Ask Lemmy

If your #1 priority is to save the planet and not pollute and you have the money, so of course go for it.

In the pollution case, it's better to keep a viable used ICE car running than to go buy a new EV. But that's completely ignoring the economics of it. Battery is cheap once purchased. And ICE has more maintenance and repair costs.

Your second paragraph is why I haven't pulled the trigger yet. I don't WFH, but my commute is only about 10 miles round trip and most of my errands are done within that same area. My Toyota is 12 years old and only has ~80k miles on it, so it just doesn't make sense to switch at this point.

That said, I'm casually looking for a new job and my commute would go up dramatically for a lot of options in my field, so I haven't eliminated the possibility.

You'd be hard pressed to find any modern car that isn't doing that.

Holy crap. That's an expensive software update. Did the manufacturer provide any kind of remuneration?

I mean modern ICE cars can have this same problem.

OTA updates are not an EV thing. That is all modern cars.

I consider electric only to be a commuter car at best. It’s not going to be able to do a road trip. And depending on the car and the commute may even not be able to do a grocery run after work some days.

I really wonder what kind of car you drive. Sounds like a Nissan Leaf or something.

I'll share a couple of anecdotes regarding my experience with EVs:

My parents live on a farm in rural Maine. They are on their second Chevy Bolt (first was a lease, and they liked it so much that they upgraded to a later generation when the lease expired). It's an inexpensive, no-frills EV that is their primary means of transportation. Living in the country, the shortest trip they take is likely to be at least 20 miles round-trip. In the past, I've borrowed that car for an overnight trip to Vermont. We made sure to charge it at home before the leaving, and drove to Vermont without needing to stop. I don't recall the exact distance, but it was about 4 hours of driving through rolling hills. We charged it again in Vermont, and drove home the next day.

My partner and I have a 2023 Hyundai Ioniq 5 that we bought used for $28k. It's all-wheel drive and has a battery warmer, both of which are helpful in cold climates. We do not have a charger at home. My wife's commute is 20 miles round trip, and we are able to charge the car where she works, which we do roughly once a week. Although the car itself is capable of charging very quickly, the charger available to us is a low-power home charger, so it's nice to be able to leave it plugged in during the full work day. We don't hesitate to take this car on longer trips, especially if they take the interstate highway system or pass through major cities, where faster charging is always available.

When I bought the car, it was 150 miles away from my house. It was charged to 100% when I picked it up, and the car estimated 300 miles of range. We arrived at home with 50% charge remaining, so I'd say the 300 mile range was pretty accurate.

With this car and our charging habits, daily driving doesn't really require any special thought or planning at all. For longer trips, anything less than a 150 mile round trip requires no more planning than "I should make sure to charge it within a day or so of the trip, if possible." For a trip in the 250 mile range, I would definitely prefer to start fully charged, if possible, otherwise I'd want to explore charging options along the way. Only if going over that would I definitely feel the need to investigate charging options at my destination or along the route. A home charger would make things even simpler, but as it is it's so low-stress that we don't feel a lot of urgency to get one installed.

I recommend reading Tim Bray's experiences with several years of EV-only ownership, including some long (1000+ mile) road trips in Canada. Here are a couple:

• 5 year retrospective
• An in-depth report of a 1000 mile trip from Vancouver, BC to Regina, Saskatchewan

Double your commute gives you a buffer for the heater, or the grocery run after work. For most people this is only 80 miles.... which almost every electric only car can do without issues.

Is the cost worth the vehicle?

This is where I get grumpy. I feel like that kind of range is a different category of vehicle, and it should be significantly cheaper than an ICEV, since it means I need to plan around the range.

I realize it's the size of the battery pack, so it isn't where most of the cost of the vehicle comes from, but still.

When it's time to replace my current vehicle, I'll probably go PHEV. But ideally public transit will be solved, so I won't need to. 🤣

Spot on. Another thing to consider is weather. EVs perform worse in cold weather - lower ranger and slower charging. Some manufacturers are worse than others. Preconditioning while plugged in is super helpful in below freezing temperatures and use the heated seats and heated steering wheel instead of climate control if you can.

Just needs some research if you live somewhere where below freezing temperatures occur at times in a year. Absolutely not a reason to avoid EVs altogether, just know the limitations, what to expect, and how to best mitigate some of the limitations.

I’ve found the range is better than what they claim for stop and go city driving due to regen braking. But otherwise the range estimate is about as accurate as the miles per gallon estimate on a gas car.

It is definitely way cheaper to own than a gas car.

I've found that buying used is fine if the car is still under the manufacturers original warranty. Better yet if it has the premium/extended warranty package.

That's basically the only warranty that you would care about (and actually want to extend), most other warranties have so many exclusions that they're not worth it. And definitely ignore anyone calling you telling you that they've "been trying to reach you about your cars extended warranty."

Look for a used one now. The prices are low enough that you'll be able to get a good one for a low enough price that you may not feel bad if you decide to upgrade in 2 or 3 years.

Personally the newer vehicles have been going more and more into drm on all their things. Even ICE vehicles have been doing it. Locking the consumer into their walled garden parts and service. And when they erroneously decide that your car doesn't make enough profit, they tell you too bad, your 3yr old car isn't supported, you should buy a new one.

Battery technology itself isn't going to have a huge breakthrough reach the electric vehicle consumer in the next 5 years. They'd already have to have viable proof of concept to do that, and nobody has.

improvements over the next couple years will make current electric cars obsolete

This is my problem with any new car. Practically every new car (even ICEVs) is just a smart phone on wheels now. It’s not like in the ‘90s - ‘00s when you could still legit buy a car from the ‘70s and daily drive it and repair it in your own drive way for cheap (most people in the 50s - 80s were capable of basic tune ups, etc).

My concern is that at some point the parts won’t be made anymore. Or if the LCD command console gets cracked or something your car’s totaled. I mean, people used to own cars for at least ten years, twenty years wasn’t uncommon. Do you think a 2025 XYZ is going to be on the road in ten years- twenty years? What’s the resale value on that / who’s going to buy a twenty year old phone on wheels?

As much as people believe EVs are better for the environment, aren’t they increasing the rate at which a vehicle ends up in landfill? I hope recycling is part of the car’s lifecycle.

At the same time though, I have to acknowledge that, without an ICE, EVs have far fewer points of failure. There’s a potential for them to be on the road much longer. I just don’t see that happening due to consumer demand. Even if you’re able to update the software and swap out worn out parts, is that enough to keep the car on the road as long as or longer than an ICEV? What happens when technology changes and they find better batteries or charging methods? How much do you have to invest in the phone on wheels to keep it on the road?

ICE engines improve all the time too. Are you similarly hesitant to buy a car with one?