this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2024
1411 points (98.0% liked)

Science Memes

10348 readers
1829 users here now

Welcome to c/science_memes @ Mander.xyz!

A place for majestic STEMLORD peacocking, as well as memes about the realities of working in a lab.



Rules

  1. Don't throw mud. Behave like an intellectual and remember the human.
  2. Keep it rooted (on topic).
  3. No spam.
  4. Infographics welcome, get schooled.


Research Committee

Other Mander Communities

Science and Research

Biology and Life Sciences

Physical Sciences

Humanities and Social Sciences

Practical and Applied Sciences

Memes

Miscellaneous

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

At this point people can believe in whatever they want as long as it doesn't harm anyone else. Someone believing in a bunch of crystals and burning their money on them is a lot less harmful than other beliefs that I won't mention.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I think there are many societal harms that arise out of enabling and enriching the types of scammers that abuse hopeful yet naive people. But social science doesn't count.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

Agreed. Crystals, manifestation, astrology etc. is such a stupid thing for people to feel mentally superior over others for. Being a jackass and bullying people for wanting to believe in something like luck is mentally weak. Science doesn't save a mind from its own ignorance.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

They recently found evidence that not only was Penrose right all along about quantum effects in the brain but there's these crystaline things in your brain that do quantum shit, not very specific on all the details.. but the first thing I thought was

"Can't wait for Spirit Science to completely and delibrately misinterpret this to sell more rocks."

Edit: Maybe I was jumping the gun a bit about claiming Orch-OR itself was proven

Source on "Penrose was right": https://youtu.be/xa2Kpkksf3k

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

OrchOR makes way too many wild claims for there to easily be any evidence for it. Even if we discover quantum effects (in the sense of scalable interference effects which have absolutely not been demonstrated) in the brain that would just demonstrate there are quantum effects in the brain, OrchOR is filled with a lot of assumptions which go far beyond this and would not be anywhere near justified. One of them being its reliance on gravity-induced collapse, which is nonrelativistic, meaning it cannot reproduce the predictions of quantum field theory, our best theory of the natural world.

A theory is ultimately not just a list of facts but a collection of facts under a single philosophical interpretation of how they relate to one another. This is more of a philosophical issue, but even if OrchOR proves there is gravitational induced collapse and that there is quantum effects in the brain, we would still just take these two facts separately. OrchOR tries to unify them under some bizarre philosophical interpretation called the Penrose–Lucas argument that says because humans can believe things that are not proven, therefore human consciousness must be noncomputable, and because human consciousness is not computable, it must be reducible to something that you cannot algorithmically predict its outcome, which would be true of an objective collapse model. Ergo, wave function collapse causes consciousness.

Again, even if they proved that there is scalable quantum interference effects in the brain, even if they proved that there is gravitationally induced collapse, that alone does not demonstrate OrchOR unless you actually think the Penrose-Lucas argument makes sense. They would just be two facts which we would take separately as fact. It would just be a fact that there is gravitionally induced collapse, a fact that there is scalable quantum interference effects in the brain but there would be no reason to adopt any of their claims about "consciousness."

But even then, there is still no strong evidence that the brain in any way makes use of quantum interference effects, only loose hints that it may or not be possible with microtubules, and there is definitely no evidence of the gravitationally induced collapse.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I think you just did that as there is no experimental evidence at all to support Orch OR.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Next up, Maxwell.

Turns out the secret to defeating entropy was demons all along.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Not familiar with that one and I'm way too high right now to read an explanation.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

tl;dr Maxwell's Demon is a thought experiment where an imaginary demon lets only hot molecules into a hot room and cold into a cold room (from each other), thereby violating thermodynamics.


Maxwell's demon, a thought experiment of chambers filled with hot and cold gas, connected by a microscopic trapdoor.

Thermodynamics/statistics shows that on average hot particles will go from the hotter side to the colder more than vice versa, gradually evening things out. That's increase of entropy (increase of 'disorder', because there's less 'order' of the separation between hot and cold regions.)

Maxwell's demon sits at the trapdoor and opens it only for hot particles from the cold side to go to the hot side, and cold ones from the hot side to go to the cold side. So the separation gets more; entropy decreases. But the demon apparently isn't increasing entropy elsewhere or expending non-negligible energy.

Therefore violating thermodynamics which, I think Einstein famously said, is basically the only physical law you can be completely certain won't be violated.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I think I'm too dumb to get it in general...

But I do hope that one day we can rewrite all the laws of the universe and invent God, that's the dream. To one day have a world where anything is possible. Till then we are stuck with the laws of physics.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

God is just E=mc^2

If you can attain enough energy to convert it into mass, you are all-powerful.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 month ago (1 children)

There is scientific evidence that backs crystals, it's called the placebo effect.

So, you're wrong.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Science doesn't back the crystals, it backs the placebo effect.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 1 month ago

"Science doesn't back medical injections, it backs the body's immune response."

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Short comment:
Does the LHC explain emotions?

 

Long comment:
Perhaps there are other "forces" in the universe than physical forces. For example what is faith but a non-physical force? And yet it drives people to feel certain ways and do certain things. Same goes for love.

Just like the placebo effect there are many things that affect a person internally even though externally they don't appear to be doing anything.

If something so simple as wearing a bracelet brings balance to someone's troubled mind then I don't see the issue nor do I see the reason to argue about it on the internet.

Now, all that being said, these products are just a grift. We lost the plot when we went from
"pretty rock that eases my mind because I get dopamine from looking at it"
to
"this rock has magical powers and you should buy it because of that".

Conclusion: people are allowed to feel spiritual and psychological connections with things and it is wrong to take advantage of those feelings for profit.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

Yes. Insofar as our brains are made up of physical matter and interpret electrical signals from our body. Emotions are our meat computers' interpretations of some of those inputs. If you could know the exact location and velocity of every physical particle, you could know/predict the future based on that information and physics. It's impossible to get that knowledge currently, but that doesn't make the underlying principle any less true.

But I do agree that this is a dumb thing to argue abt and to let people enjoy their little thingies.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

In terms of precision, I'm pretty sure LIGO is the most accurate measuring device ever created, and its not even close.

IIRC it can measure fluctuations in spacetime half the width of a proton at the distance of the diameter of our solar system.

It also hasn't found magic energy crystals or whatever, but I'm just typing.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Pedant: they did say 'particle physics experiment'

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago (5 children)

People will shit on crystals believers in one breath and tell people to 'respect other's religion' in another or gloat about their MBTI assessment. The cognitive dissonance is unreal.

I don't believe in either but at least I'm consistent. If you're not, then you're just finding an excuse to hate on a hobby that primarily attracts women.

This is the same thing that happens to anything that women likes: pumpkin spice lattes, uggs, horoscopes, tarot cards, rose, etc. It's seen as trivial and stupid no matter how banal the average person's interest are regardless of gender.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

I don't think standing by and letting people get scammed is the right move either

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Wait shiny rocks have a gender now?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

In a lot of the Romance languages. ;)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Respecting others' religions and crystals - I'd only recommend not using the fact they believe in things that don't exist against them. No need to indulge them. No need to do things differently for their benefit.

MBTI - in the workplace it's pretty low value and low predictive power. Testing is unreliable. It's easy to hit whatever set of letters you think are desired in your workplace with a little practice. In groups of MBTI fans it seems more useful, but those groups try very hard to place themselves into correct categories, and it does predict useful dynamics in interactions between people of different MBTI types.

Hobbies that attract women - I don't think that's pertinent, where you see more women into crystals you see men more likely to believe in magic devices for cars.

Belief in magic is pretty even between the genders and pretty common

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

Belief in magic is pretty even between the genders and pretty common

I was interested and looked up some studies. There is a gender gap in spiritual believe and women tend to be more spiritual, including believing in magic. So OPs statement in that regards holds.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying everything that op wrote is correct or that I agree, but the starting point they used, that women tend to belive in magical stuff more often, seems to be true.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/340544674_Examining_the_roles_of_Intuition_and_Gender_in_Magical_Beliefs

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8617579/

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Have you considered that there's more than one person on the internet? One person can say one thing and another person say the opposite and no one has been a hypocrite.

Anyway, I'd say we should respect people's right to practice what they want, but we can still make fun of it. I probably would say don't do it to their face, but that's up to you.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Pro tip: the difference between faith healers and organized religions and belief systems is that, by and large, priests do not seek out people who are vulnerable, charge them three figures per psychic session, and then try to upsell crystals that do nothing on top of it. You'll never hear someone say "respect their religion" in regards to Scientology.

Also

anything that women like

Bro, have you seen how much people shit on sports, beer, and other stereotypically masculine interests? People shit on basic things because they're basic and some people use them as a substitute for a personality, not because women like them.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

is that, by and large, priests do not seek out people who are vulnerable

What are you talking about, every organized religion does this. If people weren't vulnerable to being deceived, there wouldn't be any religious institutions. And I'll spare you the longwinded rant about the pressure to tithe other than to say that it exists and it's extremely aggressive.

Also, you're very much proving their point unintentionally. Quote from the first sentence in the wikipedia article for the slang term 'basic' :

Basic is a slang term in American popular culture used pejoratively to describe middle class white people, especially women, who are perceived to prefer mainstream products, trends, and music.

You're using a gendered insult to dismiss their claims of bias based on gender lines. I usually try to be more constructive than this but wow are you off the mark here.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

is that, by and large, priests do not seek out people who are vulnerable

What are you talking about, every organized religion does this.

As an aside, the Jewish religion specifically discourages this.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Religion panders to the vulnerable, that I'll grant you. But no major organized religion I'm aware of, apart from scientology, actively tries to soak people. (And before you say it, the collection plate does not count.) We respect people's beliefs as long as the people who tell them to believe them aren't doing so because they know the things they're peddling are total bunk and just want vulnerable people's money.

Second of all, I wasn't even aware that "basic" was a gendered insult. What I meant was that people make fun of mainstream things because they're mainstream, and have since time immemorial, and that people who follow whatever the mainstream believes in lieu of having a personality deserve to be mocked.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

But no major organized religion I'm aware of, apart from scientology, actively tries to soak people. (And before you say it, the collection plate does not count.)

We used to call them “tv preachers”. They’d be on all the time with a phone number on the screen to call and donate money. Over time they became “mainstream” that millions now follow and now they’re loosely called “Evangelicals”. They’re nominally “Christian”, functionally “Protestant” but most do not follow a particular established denomination.

Make no mistake, the “soaking” is central to that form of “Christianity”.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

And I would not ask anyone to "respect the beliefs" of someone whose only religion comes in the form of televangelism. There is a big difference between a religious leader and a charlatan, and it is our duty as friends and family members to try to help get people out from under the thumb of the latter.

load more comments
view more: next ›