this post was submitted on 14 Jul 2024
-1 points (49.7% liked)

Unpopular Opinion

7211 readers
3 users here now

Welcome to the Unpopular Opinion community!


How voting works:

Vote the opposite of the norm.


If you agree that the opinion is unpopular give it an arrow up. If it's something that's widely accepted, give it an arrow down.



Guidelines:

Tag your post, if possible (not required)


  • If your post is a "General" unpopular opinion, start the subject with [GENERAL].
  • If it is a Lemmy-specific unpopular opinion, start it with [LEMMY].


Rules:

1. NO POLITICS


Politics is everywhere. Let's make this about [general] and [lemmy] - specific topics, and keep politics out of it.


2. Be civil.


Disagreements happen, but that doesn’t provide the right to personally attack others. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Please also refrain from gatekeeping others' opinions.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Shitposts and memes are allowed but...


Only until they prove to be a problem. They can and will be removed at moderator discretion.


5. No trolling.


This shouldn't need an explanation. If your post or comment is made just to get a rise with no real value, it will be removed. You do this too often, you will get a vacation to touch grass, away from this community for 1 or more days. Repeat offenses will result in a perma-ban.



Instance-wide rules always apply. https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Mod Note: I'm bending the "no politics' rule to highlight a disgusting trend I've been seeing on Lemmy lately. Due to the sheer volume of comments fitting that trend and the huge number downvotes given to anyone who speaks out against it, I'm convinced this opinion is truly unpopular in the Lemmy-verse. This is also topical and important enough to merit discussion or at least to provide a point of reflection. So while it touches on politics, that's merely the framing device of current events being used to highlight a larger problem.

As you're inevitably downvoting this, at least take a good, long look in the mirror while you do so.


The sheer number of people here praising the shooter, advocating for, glorifying, or just flat out calling for violence has been a real eye opener and litmus test for the kind of people I've surrounded myself with on this platform. Suffice it to say, a lot of you have failed that test spectacularly.

A rational, independent thinker should be able to condemn this kind of violence even when it's targeted towards their "enemies." Political violence has absolutely NO PLACE in a healthy society, and no one should be praising or advocating for it. No one. Ever. This is one thing that, regardless of the paradox of tolerance, should be universally condemned.

There are, apparently, a ton of extremists here that don't see themselves as such because they believe their extremism is justified and that they're on the right side of history. Ironically, which is what all extremists think.

This goes back further than just yesterdays's events. For example, it's been a common refrain since the Supreme Court presidential immunity decision that, paraphrased, "The current non-dictator president should do dictator things to stop the other dictator". Which is just another flavor of "Extremism is bad except when it's my flavor of extremism".

Don't give me that "it's just gallows humor", "I'm oppressed, and he deserved it", "if you had a time machine, wouldn't you go back to 1934...", "we haven't been a healthy society for X years...", or other excuses. This is a BFD with major implications and ramifications, and y'all Lemmings are treating like we just missed the exit ramp to Utopia and are trying to find a wide spot to make a U-turn.

It's certainly fine to have no sympathy for the guy (I sure as hell don't), but it's another thing entirely to be cheering on, promoting, and/or advocating for extremist stances like those being thrown out lately.

You say you want a better society? Then act like it!

Moments like this are the true test of one's character and intellectual honesty, and I'm beyond disappointed in so many of you.

(page 2) 33 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 23 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It's not all of Lemmy though - on Feddit.uk, nobody's even mentioned it. The Britons are just discussing the wide variety of meals you can make by combining chips, cheese, beans, gravy and curry sauce in different arrangements.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

Fair enough.

The Britons are just discussing the wide variety of meals you can make by combining chips, cheese, beans, gravy and curry sauce in different arrangements

Got a link? lol. That sounds right up my alley.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 10 months ago (2 children)

... praising the shooter, advocating for, glorifying, or just flat out calling for violence ...

There's a big difference between the above, and recognizing that the world would be a better place without Donald Trump in it.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The latter is not what I'm describing, though. That can also be clearly stated without venturing into the former.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago

Still worth making a note of.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I'm certainly not upset that someone tried to take out the guy that literally said he wanted to become a dictator if elected. I don't think that political assassination is the right move in most situations, this included. On the contrary, I think someone should put a bullet in Putin's head. So I ask where do we draw the line? Currently the system is corrupt and is shielding Trump from consequences. That leaves the people with few options. What is 2A for if not to defend the country from a tyranical dictator? To me, this is a "leopards ate your face" situation. Trump has been fucking around, and the people are bypassing the broken legal system so he can find out. I'm sad he lived.

Edit: To stir the pot a little more, I'm all for guns being illegal. If there were better gun policies in the USA, this wouldn't have been possible. So this is Republican policy in action.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Abdicating the lawful, peaceful transfer of power would be insanity.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Well said.

This is how we genuinely defend liberty and equality, the values so many brave soldiers died on battlefields all over the world to protect. Far more effectively than wishing for yet another blood drenched battlefield, liable to get the same results as all those in centuries past.

Did the US Civil War end racism? Did WW2 end fascism? Did the assassinations of MLK Jr or Abraham Lincoln end the fight for civil rights? No. Because ideas cannot be destroyed, they can only be effectively fought with other, better ideas. Not blood and steel.

Defense with violence from other, already-engaged violence is one thing. Accelerating towards new violence is another, and is not going to truly fix a problem.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 10 months ago

👏

I said something similar last week, but less concisely. Was downvoted to hell for it because it went against the lynch mob mentality.

Some of the responses to this post are truly encouraging in a "faith in humanity restored" kind of way. So thank you for being one of those.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I choose to read the post in Patrick Stewart's voice.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I love that. lol. Gonna try that myself (except for the y'all. my brain cannot produce that in Patrick Stewart's voice)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

No disagreement here, especially since you quoted me at least two and a half times there.

The people celebrating this and wishing the shooter had succeeded don't seem to put much thought into the kind of world they're advocating for. Don't forget that you also have to live in that world, and it's extremely naive to think it won't eventually turn against you. If you think things are bad in the US, take a look at how it's going in countries where this is the standard operating procedure.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I haven’t seen anybody praising the shooter. I have seen about bunch of gallows humor. Is that what you’re talking about?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

No, gallows humor is one thing when it's not a thinly-veiled praise (which much of it is).

The mods have been working overtime, so that could be why?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Then you should be able to link to the mod log of the removed stuff

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/modlog?page=1&actionType=ModRemoveComment

Varies by instance's point of view, naturally, and Lemmy UI doesn't allow filtering by community or searching by "reason" (even though the API supports the former), but there's your home instance's.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

There are a few there, but nothing to support your initial claim of it being rampant

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago

The upvotes on the incitement of violence are the concerning things, lemmy is lurker heavy.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (4 children)

Preach.

We have to have principles, which we hold even when inconvenient and distasteful. When we try to improve the world we are asking other people to give something up for principles, and we can't realistically do that if we don't demonstrate principles of our own.

Basic human rights, really basic rights, we should be able to agree on.

  • Don't murder people, don't celebrate murder, don't encourage people to commit murder

  • Being able to speak, and communicate your position, concerns, and wants without fear of silencing.

Bonus points:

  • Golden rule, only do/force onto others what you would want done/forced onto you.

These are just the starting points, I hope we can find common ground here.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 38 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I agree with you, however denouncing political violence doesn’t need to extend to fawning.

This is my favorite proposed response I’ve seen:

If I was a Dem asked what I think this would be my short statement:

History has shown us that political violence like this is a hallmark of authoritarian states.

That it turned against the man inciting it shows how slippery and dangerous our current moment is.

Come November we have a choice -- an America where a man like Trump, who believes lynching his political enemies is fine, sits in the white house while fires of political retribution burn across the nation; or an America where our fragile democracy rests in less unhinged hands, safe for the moment.

https://sfba.social/@DeliaChristina/112781894739327584

[–] [email protected] -2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

doesn’t need to extend to fawning.

Fawning?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Not saying it’s what you’re doing.

Really just trying to say some folks are being more gentle than they should and over correcting.

As usual, the best way is a middle ground but the internet rewards extreme positions.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

Gotcha. Was scratching my head as to what could be seen as fawning in my rebuke of this kind of behavior. lol

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago (2 children)

The sheer number of people here praising the shooter

Post links because I haven't seen one yet.

load more comments
view more: ‹ prev next ›