this post was submitted on 08 Jul 2024
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No Stupid Questions

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Do we really don't have anything older before it that counts as a paid service/job being registered?

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

More interesting is the origins of that phrase to designate prostitution.

Fortunately, I found an article in worldhistories.net, that shows the first documented time of this phrase. The person who coined the phrase was none other than Ruyard Kipling ("The Jungle Book"):

Lalun is a member of the most ancient profession in the world. Lilith was her very-great-grandmamma, and that was before the days of Eve as every one knows. In the West, people say rude things about Lalun’s profession, and write lectures about it, and distribute the lectures to young persons in order that Morality may be preserved. In the East where the profession is hereditary, descending from mother to daughter, nobody writes lectures or takes any notice, and that is a distinct proof of the inability of the East to manage its own affairs.

- On the City Wall, in In Black and White (Allahabad: A. H. Wheeler & Co., 1889), page 78

If you want to know about actual prostitution, we should go far back to ancient Mesopotamian texts.

According to "The Epic of Gilgamesh" (the most ancient epic in the world), the gods created a savage man, Enkidu, who lived in harmony with the animals in the woods. Gilgamesh wants to tame Enkidu, and is told to bring a "harimtu" (a "sacred prostitute") to him.

and he [Enkidu] possessed her ripeness. She was not bashful as she welcomed his ardor. She laid aside her cloth and he rested upon her. She treated him, the savage, to a woman’s task, as his love was drawn unto her.”

Later, as he regrets joining civilization, Enkidu curses the harimtu:

“I will curse you with a great curse… you shall not build a house for your debauch you shall not enter the tavern of girls…. May waste places be your couch, May the shadow of the town-wall be your stand May thorn and bramble skin your feet May drunkard and toper (ed note: someone who drinks alcohol to excess) alike slap your cheek.”

Researcher Gerda Lerner, in her article "The Origin of Prostitution in Ancient Mesoportamia" (Signs, 1986, pp. 245-6), says:

The nature of this curse tells us that the harimtu who mated with Enkidu lived an easier and better life than the harlot who has her stand at the town wall and is abused by her drunken customers.

This would confirm the distinction we made earlier between the women engaged in various forms of sacral sexual service and commercial prostitutes. Such a distinction was more likely to have existed in the earlier period than later.”

So yes, there were prostitutes in ancient Mesopotamia, the cradle of civilization.

EDIT: typo

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

Prostitution is not specifically gendered and sex for pleasure's sake is not specific to men. There could be male or female customers seeking male or female prostitutes.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago
[–] [email protected] -2 points 5 months ago

I’ve read an argument (I think I can cite this to David Graeber maybe) that women were one of the original forms of property. Early forms of marriage are essentially master/slave, or a form of prostitution.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 5 months ago

The answer is sexism. Before anything else, women were whores.

Not cool actually. It's clearly not true, but that's why it's a saying.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago (2 children)

It's hard for me to believe that hunter / food seeker isn't the oldest profession... But it's definitely up there.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Yo if you hunt and gather a little more and share it all you can fuck my cave wife

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

What's the last time you met a gatherer doing it as a profession and not a hobby?

Hunters are a little bit more common, but still, full time food hunters are rare.

Prostitutes on the other hand.

So as a simple saying used in a daily life, I can kinda see why it's used :)

[–] [email protected] 19 points 5 months ago

It predates human civilization, and likely even predates homo sapiens. Our great chimp ancestors were likely trading spare food for sexual favors, though whether you can consider it the oldest profession depends on your definitions.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago

Itt: people finally making the argument I've made against the op statement for years.

It's beautiful when society starts to change and it begins to align with your views. 🥲

[–] [email protected] 97 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

If you take “job” to mean “doing a thing in exchange for another thing”:

Allow me to narrate a brief historical reenactment:

Caveguy:

dragging cavedeer carcus somewhere

Cavegirl:

happens upon the scene

grunting (translation: damn that venison lookin’ tasty af)

Caveguy:

grunting (translation: it’s mine you can’t have it)

Cavegirl:

grunting, but seductively (translation: well, if we smash, can I have some?)

Caveguy:

aroused grunting (translation: hell yeah girl, you can stick around, I’ve been having the worst dry spell)

~fin~

[–] [email protected] 40 points 5 months ago

This is cinema - Martin Scorsese

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago

These Unga bunga bitches always sliding in my DMs trying to get free shit!

[–] [email protected] 23 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I liked the analysis in HIMYM. It can't possibly be the world's oldest profession, because in order to exchange something of value for sex, you have to have obtained something of value. Like say this hypothetical first ever prostitute was exchanging blowjobs for berries, then berry gatherer was actually the first profession.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Unless the offer was a blowjob for him to go get the berries.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Arguably, her giving the blowjob meant she got the berries

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The berry purchaser is the real job creator.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

Did the berries tickle down?

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