I think one has to gather more proof before concluding that the gap is due to LLMs. It can also be that the engagement was lost due to third party app drop. We don't have stats to distinguish them.
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Reddit has been trying hard for years to move beyond being a discussion forum to another mindless scroling app.
The reason is because in the time people read one discussion thread they only see one ad, but scrolling memes, etc they will see many more. It makes the ads much more valuable.
Never thought of it that way! What a dystopian world we live in where intelligent conversation dies because there's no good way to profit off of it.
Im not surprised by how quick it dies, base solely on the bad attitude of Spez.
Reddit is so useless. I write occasionally, and whenever I hit a wall researching a character's background, everyone tells me, "ask on Reddit!"
I stopped asking on Reddit five years ago, because I can't get any feedback besides a handful teenagers making wild guesses. Thank you for trying, kids. I guess.
To be honest, it feels much more likely to see posts on the Fediverse with many upvotes, few or no comments
Yeah the fediverse has lower engagement all around because the community is a lot smaller. This is especially true in "long tail" communities. However, the upside is that there are no bots, dark patterns, or manipulated feeds.
That being said, while I appreciate the chronological feed I do wish there was some way to "weigh" less active communities so that I can see their activity in my feed without them being drowned out by the busier communities. I've noticed that I've gone to communities that I'm definitely subscribed to, and seen that there were several posts that I missed because the posts were drowned out by content in busy communities like, for instance, [email protected]
Damn I didn't realize how artificial it is now. I remember before the protests I can feel the entire platform reposting stuff over and over with the same content. Pretty much the only good subs are the small niche subs, but those large ones are atrocious.
In addition to factors already mentioned by other users, I believe that there are also social/cultural reasons for that lack of engagement.
Commenting in Reddit is like stepping on a mine field - no matter how innocuous your comments are, you're bound to have users there assuming words into your mouth to screech at you. Plus all the "ackshyually", one-upping, "wah TL;DR!" (i.e. "I'm entitled to an abridged version of what you said, even if you likely spent far more time writing your comment than I would reading it").
Eventually you say "why bother commenting? Just to get a headache?" and stop commenting altogether.
Yep this is one of the reasons I kept deleting my account even before the whole spez drama.
It's also filled with repeat comments. Most posts you read a few top comments and their threads. But then it quickly becomes other people just commenting the same exact thing.
It's just not worth looking at comments there.
Does it sometimes seem like commenting in high traffic online spaces feels this way too, not just Reddit?
Kind of. In most high traffic spaces it feels simply pointless; as in, nobody will read it.
In Reddit (and Twitter) however it feels like people will read it, misread it, and punish you for what you didn't say.
Before I quit Reddit (when Bacon Reader died) I had already curtailed my commenting because of this. It seemed that any time I tried to make a thoughtful comment on a even slightly contentions subject I ended up in a pointless argument with someone who had poor reading comprehension. It was disheartening to realize that while I was agonizing over every word I put into my comment in an attempt to clearly explain my thought, the same courtesy would not be extended by the people mis-reading it. I started to think people were just scanning comments for keywords to get angry about then telling me that I was ignorant of a subject I knew a great deal about or a reactionary child when I am 50 IRL. Commenting became a burden and it lead to a decline in the quality of conversation as more and more thoughtful commenters found that burden too great.
IIRC they changed the way they calculate the scores a few years ago, which generally increased the numbers you saw.
Yes, exactly. The upvotes did not reflect actual real engagement for a long time. I don't remember anymore where I read about it, but allegedly there is also some artificial correction applied. Maybe to combat brigading of upvotes but can of course be used for manipulation.
I think this disparity in votes and comments is also hugely affected by how the UI has been changing over the years as well as the destruction of third party apps. The site is now designed in a way where active participation is less encouraged than ever before unless you’re running old reddit on a traditional computer with an ad blocker.
Reddit is ded, and for good reasons
Just wait till the advertisers find out the eyeballs they are paying for are also just AI sock puppets. Enshitification strikes again.
I’m sure the leadership will have cashed out by then. In fact, disgusting wealth has already been generated.
I’d say in about 2 years, the entire place is going to be bots with AI generated content that try to mimic “real users” using their new Dynamic Product Ads tool
Yeah, it's just partially like that now lol. A few weeks ago there was a side-by-side reddit screenshot post on Lemmy. It showed the exact same reddit post, with the exact same tens of comments (all word for word, some in response to each other iirc), from different accounts less than a year apart. 100% fabrication. I'd never seen such extensive bot-masquerading as people behaviour; it was a realization moment for me
I think X led the way in robotic hellscape innovation that's now being adopted by Reddit.
Dead Internet theory in full effect.
The Future is a Dead Mall
We can still find engagement in small niche subs on Reddit. We've known, for many years, that people were going to move away from large corporate-controlled sites such as Reddit, Twitter etc..
The Fediverse is addressing this. It isn't a panacea. However, it is a re-imagining of what we want the Internet to be.
There are many others, that will come along after us, to address this further.
What will stop bots from coming here? Registration filters and user reports?
Bots are already proliferating the fediverse. Kbin is constantly spammed with "buy online drugs here" links. Transparent bots (those that are tagged as bots) try to boost engagement by reposting things from Reddit, but are still perpetuating one of the worst aspects of reddit even if they're being upfront about it. AI generated articles posted on obvious junk websites are constantly being spammed by the same accounts.
It's a difficult problem to solve.
One thing I noticed the other day, while banning one such bot, is that the same network has been posting on Reddit as well.
Turns out the Reddit ones have been posting the spam for months, while the Lemmy ones get banned within hours.
Part of that is the lower volume of content here, but part of it is also the great people that take the time to report bad content ♥️
I always report. However, I heard that the report only goes to the admin of your instance. Maybe future releases will support cross instance reporting and the ability for admins to "trust" bans by admins from other instances.
Kbin is constantly spammed with “buy online drugs here” links.
Got examples? I've never seen this once as a Kbin user.
Here's one: https://kbin.social/m/random/t/1060795 I always see them popping up under [email protected]
Yeah, I see a ton of this under random.
Here's my front page at this very moment: https://i.imgur.com/4IsJ68f.png
They come up every few weeks, usually admins ban them quickly
There will always be bots on the Internet. I do not believe this is a solvable problem. Instead, we focus on mitigation.
However, Reddit has little incentive to fight the bots because it increases engagement metrics. In fact, it costs money and reduces profits to reduce bot activity. Hence, so many bots.
Right here on Lemmy, because nobody financially benefits from turning a blind eye to the problem, I think we have a head start. This platform is created by users for users. For that reason, I think we should never have the problem quite to the same extent as they do.
Yes, if it grows large enough, the bots will come.
The Fediverse doesn't have any defenses against AI impersonators though, aside from irrelevance. If it gets big the same incentives will come into play.
As I've heard someone say last year: "I wish Reddit a happy Digg.com"
What is this cursed place? The clickbait has eaten everything. uBlock should make this into a blank page.
Somehow I never tried looking at Digg
It reminds me of the original "Your doctor doesn't want you to know these 8 tricks for belly fat" ads, only that's the actual content?
That's spot on
Digg was Reddit, before Reddit came along. And then they tried to monetise it all and pushed out a site layout update that "enhanced" that monetisation aspect (sound familiar?)
Basically they fucked it up right there.
I left Digg in 2010 and never went back, and now the domain and it's remnants are owned by some advertising company.