this post was submitted on 08 Apr 2024
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The Vatican on Monday declared gender-affirming surgery and surrogacy as grave violations of human dignity, putting them on par with abortion and euthanasia as practices that reject God’s plan for human life.

The Vatican’s doctrine office issued “Infinite Dignity,” a 20-page declaration that has been in the works for five years. After substantial revision in recent months, it was approved March 25 by Pope Francis, who ordered its publication.

In its most eagerly anticipated section, the Vatican repeated its rejection of “gender theory,” or the idea that one’s gender can be changed. It said God created man and woman as biologically different, separate beings, and said people must not tinker with that plan or try to “make oneself God.”

“It follows that any sex-change intervention, as a rule, risks threatening the unique dignity the person has received from the moment of conception,” the document said.

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

This pope has always been nothing but a PR figurehead, he says nice platitudes, calls gay people friends, and everyone seems to buy his bullshit. Meanwhile, before he was Pope, he was a bigot, misogynistic, antiquated asshole. All the inclusive things he says are nothing but marketing.

You know what else violates human dignity? Shuffling around pedo priests so they get away with their abuses. Refusing to meet with or compensate victims of the clergy. Telling clergy not to cooperate with police etc. That's what violates human dignity

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

Guys, guys, i’m starting to think this orthodox Christianity is just a lot of made up nonsense

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

It’s astounding to me how on every social issue in the past 2000 years, the church is always like 25-100 years late on taking the right position, and they just never learn.

So look forward to the Catholic Church being ok with gender affirming surgery in 2050.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, the Vatican threatens my unique dignity. It is so declared.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

Aight, I've read through the article from The Guardian about it (Vatican calls gender fluidity and surrogacy threats to human dignity) and there are multiple layers of hypocrisy here, which I am not willing to sit through for how many of them are in these statement. It seems to me that the core of the problem is the insistent will to protect at all costs the biological side of thr gender regradless of the true self, which is what we call properly gender.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 7 months ago

You know what really violates human dignity? Being raped by a priest and then having the church cover it up.

[–] [email protected] 57 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Fuck Pope Francis. Love that he said "no its okay to do genital surgery on babies (literally less than 2 years old) if they don't match what we decided was right for them". Intersex people can just go fuck themselves in the Pope's view I guess.

0 fucking consistency to any of their bullshit rhetoric. I think God's core message is actually to shut the fuck up and let medical professionals address people's health problems.

GRS literally saved my life. I would literally be dead if not for it. Transitioning allowed me to live a happy, fulfilled life. Anyone who tries to say that I shouldn't have been able to transition, or should be forced to detransition, is unironically literally saying that I should be fucking dead. No part of me is a man. If God existed, then me as I am today was always his plan and design for me. Because otherwise he's just a fucking asshole who literally created me just to suffer and die. If such a God existed I would have no qualms openly defying his creation, because no human being should be driven to suicide over something that real medical treatments exist for.

“ideological colonization”

The unbelievable fucking audacity for the catholic God damn church to accuse trans people of colonizing is so fucking wild. Such an unbelievable thing to say as someone who's the head of an organization that goes around the world "converting people from their heathen religions to Christianity". But somehow spreadings trans rights to be themselves and receive medical treatments that save their lives is "colonization". I'll tell that to the tens of thousands of dead native children buried outside catholic residential schools.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Glad you are now happy with yourself. Indeed, how should anyone but yourself tell you who you are?

Adults of sound mind should have the right to do to their body what they wish for whatever reason they wish. It's nobody else's business. But we can't expect most ingrained religions or conservatives to accept this.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 months ago

Perhaps, then, we shouldn't accept conservatives or their religions.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 months ago (2 children)

The problem is that millions of people think that the Pope has a direct line to their god and if the Pope says being trans is in violation of their god's plan, they're not going to be good to trans people and some religious trans people, especially the ones who aren't out, will be driven further into the closet due to the self-hate.

The whole idea of a high pontiff is pretty terrifying. Look at the Crusades. How many people were killed because the Pope said to go kill them and people following him did what he ordered? There's well over a billion Catholics. If the Pope said to rise up and kill and even 1% of them followed him, the bloodbath would be enormous.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

Prior to that people also used to attempt it on their own dying miserably in their way to Jerusalem. What they did was just giving a political form to a preexisting movement.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 7 months ago

I'm no expert but I think systemically raping kids and assisting those perpetrators is a slightly worse violation of human dignity

[–] [email protected] 25 points 7 months ago

Welp, turns out they’re still the same old Catholic Church after all. Whoda thunk it? 🙄

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago (2 children)

people must not tinker with that plan or try to “make oneself God.”

How fortunate it is that every single one of is sins and can all be forgiven, so we can just leave worrying about all that up to God, right? Right?

Or some shit. I'm an atheist, but I understand the myth better than most believers. Not that it matters because there is no logic or consistency anywhere in the doctrine, so why assume there is any in this edict?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

There is sin and there are sins. One that can be forgiven, others that are not likely to...now switching gender isn't on this list, and since there are animals thar do it on their own, I'd feel good about it. Also cursing the man isn't a hige deal - but don't do it - compared to cursing the Spirit. You want to live life accordingly, these comandements are probably the one christian way. By the way, the book of Exodus has many more rules which you can't follow today, such as the burnt offerings. You'd break the law ny doing that in a normal place now. So do the other books of Moses. Have you carried a stick (read: working) on the seventh day? That's also bad.

Modern society is by no means biblical and cannot afford to do so.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

god made light so why aren’t light bulbs playing god?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The definition of what a gender entails should be vast enough that people don't feel the need to reaffirm it with drastic medical intervention with major health risks.

Let the men wear skirts and the women go topless.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

Yeah, I'm not sure that you understand what trans people experience. The core issue, at least for a number of people, is not about wearing a particular article of clothing or not, it's that your body is wrong. That doesn't even get into matters of neurochemistry; T is awful for many trans women and E for trans men. Telling people it's okay to wear a skirt or go topless isn't going to help with that - for trans masc people, going without a binder would be significantly worse. Medical intervention is merited in cases where people want medical intervention. If someone wants medical intervention, and the research shows that said intervention is the best treatment for people who want such intervention, why would we not want to give said person said intervention?

[–] [email protected] 49 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

It distinguished between gender-affirming surgeries, which it rejected, and “genital abnormalities” that are present at birth or that develop later. Those abnormalities can be “resolved” with the help of health care professionals, it said.

Of course. God created males to be male and females to be female, and any attempt to change that is an abomination... but he didn't create intersex people to be intersex, and that must be "corrected". Just goes to show, this is just man putting his hate in God's mouth again.

Honestly, the main reason I don't believe in God is because I can't believe any all-powerful, just and benevolent God would allow things like this to be said in their name without any push back.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, but what makes more sense is Dystheism...

"the belief that a god is not wholly good and can even be considered evil, or one and the same with Satan. Definitions of the term somewhat vary, with one author defining it as "where God decides to become malevolent".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dystheism

'Kinda puts the proclamations of the church into perspective.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

A malevolent god is certainly a possibility, but in that case, the absolute best thing I could do is not even acknowledge its presence.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

Epicurus Dilemma... I also, cannot get past that

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

Honestly, the main reason I don't believe in God is because I can't believe any all-powerful, just and benevolent God would allow things like this to be said in their name without any push back.

Yep. I'll believe in God when he starts smiting Philistines again.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

If "God created man and woman as biologically different" then who created all the different intersex people? Even if you ignore or dismiss trans people, there are other people whose sexual characteristics at birth were not so easily sorted into male or female, and others whose physical traits either don't align with the basic understanding of "sex" chromosomes or whose chromosomes are different than XX and XY.

Logically, if God exists, then either their statement is wrong and He does make people whose gender is indeterminate, or there is another god who is also making people. Or perhaps He is not that involved in the process, and "God's Plan" is more of a loose framework.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

Maybe he just sprinkled some life and let evolution do the rest. Like, I'd do it if I were in that position. Like spores you know, to see hiw far your mostruosity can go against other monstruosities.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

It distinguished between gender-affirming surgeries, which it rejected, and “genital abnormalities” that are present at birth or that develop later. Those abnormalities can be “resolved” with the help of health care professionals, it said.

Because of course it has the worse take. Why would the Catholic Church think consent was something that mattered?

[–] [email protected] 14 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I think offloading one's morality to a patriarchal power-hungry cartel is an embarrassment to human dignity, but you know what I do about it?

Let people live the one life they have in whatever way they want so long as it doesn't hurt anyone.

It's not anyone else's job to force their idea of dignity on people, but I guess the Catholic Church isn't known to stop their clergy from being forced onto unwilling targets.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Fuck this bioessentialist piece of trash.

I don't believe in any god, but even if I did I would not think such an entity had any right to dictate or make judgements on who I am and how I am, or my identity or purpose.

I'm so goddamn sick of this bullshit. I get to decide who I am and set my own path, fuck these people who think they get to tell me (and everyone else) what my life and body and purpose and identity are >:(

Really, I can't even begin to describe how much I hate this sort of patronising bullshit, how many of us have to suffer or die because of the relentless repressive normativity imposed by these groups and their infantilising ideologies of self repression and obedience and compliance, especially with the "dignity" and "diversity" doublespeak they've been trying to use in the past few months even while they systematically try to erase those very same things from anyone who doesn't fit into their suffocatingly binary and restricted conceptualisation of identity nya.

Our biology, identity and lives should be ours to control. We are capable of deciding our goals and purposes. I frankly hope more people realise they don't need some patronising religious institution to tell them how they should exist or what their purpose should be (if any, some folks are more nihilistic), and seize their morphological autonomy and decision making from groups that would deny it to them under the guise of such bullshit as supposed "dignity" ^.^

Seriously, fuck this. The Catholic Church (and this """cool""" pope), as well as pretty much all the other organised religious institutions who propagate the same infantilising and self-subjugating rhetoric, can go fuck themselves with a cactus in every available hole.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Christianity: Humans have free will.

No no not like that!

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Someone TAKE HIM OUT to dinner PLEASE.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Sadly, this is about as good as it's likely to get, so you'll need a bigger plan that abolishes the entire church/potpourri.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

Unfortunately, yeah. Up until this bee in his bonnet, Francis was considered to be a progressive Pope.

Just goes to show the system is the problem.

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