this post was submitted on 04 Apr 2024
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Is this some sort of remnant of evangelical puritan protestant ideology?

I don't understaun this.

If you ask me, it'd make as much sense as Orthodox and Christians.... or Shia and Muslim...

I know not all Christians are Catholics but for feck's sake...

They're all Christians to me....

Edit:

It's a U.S thing but this is the sort of things I hear...

https://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-Christian.html

I am a Catholic. Why should I consider becoming a Christian?

I now know more distinctions (apparently Catholicism requires duty and salvation is process, unlike Protestantism?) but I still think they're of a similar branch (Christianity) so I just wonder the social factor

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 year ago (9 children)

If you are curious look up the Protestant Reformation, Martin Luther and his 99 Theses.

I'm paraphrasing and my thoughts on what I experienced this but it came down more to the idea that Catholics worship the pope and the saints more than god and jesus. If you were the leader of a nation that called themselves Catholic you could find the Pope telling you what to do when it came to war and if you declared war on another Catholic country the Pope could tell you to stop or to declare peace. To not do so was in danger of having all other Catholic nations declare war.

Not to mention the many saints you are required to pray to, Purgatory and praying for the dead, all of the rituals, services in Latin, worship of the virgin mother, the schism that split the church between two Popes who excommunicated each other, etc.

Protestantism did away with all of that. No single leader, the ability to create different sects that didn't make you an apostate of the church, etc. Now don't get me wrong even the same sect don't always believe the exact same things and it can get pretty nit-picky, but Protestantisn can change with the times more easily than Catholicism can.

The goal was to make less of a ritual cult like Catholicism had become, and more of a focus on the meaning of the the actions of jesus, being able to actually get to heaven without all of the pomp and circumstance that really meant nothing, and all that crap.

The worry is the President would be more loyal to the other Catholics than the rest of the nation and would be bound by cult rules than the will of the people.

Ironically enough right now it's the Catholic President trying to stop rights from being taken away while there are both Protestants and Catholics in the Supreme Court and other facets of the government that are working so hard to do the opposite.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Probably because depending on the context "Christians" is likely referring to "Protestants." There are some very significant differences between Catholic and Protestant Christianity, moreso than between Protestant denominations, whose differences tend to be a bit more trivial. Other comments make some good points, but it is not too far of a stretch to say that Catholicism may be different enough to be considered a separate religion (I don't know who gets to draw these lines). But in the most technical sense, yes, Catholics are a subset of Christians.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It’s because Protestantism is the dominant form of Christianity in cultures where this language convention exists, and it is a deliberate tactic to other Catholics by labeling them non-Christian. Especially in previous times, Catholics were subject to large amounts of discrimination and antagonism by Protestants, and we’re still dealing with the remnants of this ideology today. I think the only reason it has subsided is the rise of secularism and other more foreign religions that are seen as a greater threat by Christians, forcing them into an uneasy alliance with their former enemies. But remember that tons of Christians used to murder each other over which sect they belonged to.

Interestingly, in Central America, the opposite convention exists, where you are either “Cristiano”, meaning Catholic, or “Evangelico”, meaning Protestant (usually Pentecostal). This is because the dominant group is reversed in that society.

Personally, I view Christianity, Islam, and Judaism as three branches of one religion since they are clearly very similar. But that is the view of an outsider.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Don't forget Catholicism spent centuries converting with a sword and their missionairies destroyed all remnants of native cultures history once they were converted. That's an awful lot of discrimination from Catholics.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I view Christianity, Islam, and Judaism as three branches of one religion since they are clearly very similar. But that is the view of an outsider.

nah, they're grouped together under the umbrella of "Abrahamic religions", and at least muslims regard the other two as "people of the book".

obv your mileage may vary from person to person, I'm not saying the terrorist idiots don't call people infidel left right and center don't exist, but people who are a bit better than that generally see christians and jews as peers.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Hundreds of years of infighting

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's like progressives and liberals 1000 years from now

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (5 children)
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[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago

some sort of remnant of evangelical puritan protestant ideology?

Yes. It's weird.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Cocaine and crack are different, technically, but they come from the same shit.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Platypuses and mammals.

Platypuses are mammals, but they're weird enough that you can't usefully generalise from them to anything else, to the point that lumping them in together could be actively misleading.

Same deal.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wait do you randomly drop "and platypuses" when you're talking about mammals??

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Kind Sir, please never drop a platypus. I thank you kindly.

(Insert smirk for my dumb joke)

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Please never drop a platypus

for that could make it flat-ypus

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Platypuses are mammals, but they’re weird enough that you can’t usefully generalise from them to anything else, to the point that lumping them in together could be actively misleading

I would argue that they're "lumpable" with other monotremes :)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Sure. But monotremes are a subclass of mammal.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I have never heard anyone say that. Presumably they say it because they don’t know any better.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I was raised Catholic in a deeply Evengelical town. The little girls were saying out of the blue that I wasn't Christian. I was like 8, they were like 6. They were absolutely parroting what their parents said, there's no way the little girls I played with daily came up with that shit on their own, and since then I've noticed that's one of the "protestant culture" things that gets passed around in those circles and occasionally escapes. That Catholics aren't Christian because saints or whatever.

They get all wound up about the "pagan" elements of Catholicism then turn around and worship their dollar bill golden idols. Hypocrites!

But basically, Catholics get crapped on when there's no other minority around and they are tired of talking about Jewish folks.

I don't practice, I'm atheist, but in the USA from a culture perspective Catholics aren't in the WASP good old boy group, even if you are otherwise white. And WASP types are happy to let you know it, although its less common than it was a few decades back.

Biden being Catholic, and JFK before him, is basically a dog whistle to certain rightwing groups to make them lose their shit, it's just less obvious than, say, Obama being black esp if you don't have a family background that would expose you to that stuff.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I’m aware of the history, but didn’t know it still lingered. Maybe it’s a regional thing. I haven’t run into this in the metropolitan Northeast or metropolitan West Coast regions. But also I’ve been atheist my whole life, so the topic has seldom come up.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I grew up going to various Christian schools as a kid. While it wasn't a common viewpoint, I did hear of it from time to time.

The reason behind it, to my knowledge, was that Catholic practices would often be significantly different from other denominations' practices. The biggest thing I can think of is the veneration of and praying to saints.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Me neither. Literally never seen or heard anyone say that.

It sounds super weird.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

They have the next outgroup to eliminate lined up in case they run out of minorities to discriminate against.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Catholics are one of America's og boogeyman. They used to fear the idea of a catholic president who could be influenced by the pope. I'm not sure when that went away.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There was (manufactured?) outrage when Tony Blair converted after his premiership. I don't think the topic of the current UK prime minister's religion even came up when he was appointed. I guess that's progress.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don’t think the topic of the current UK prime minister’s religion even came up when he was appointed.

oh it came up, along with worse.

there's are reasons why Rishi Sunak is an unfit bastard to be PM, but it's the same reasons as Boris Johnson and Theresa May.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I guess I didn't notice in the coverage I watched. Was it the daily mail or just the dreges of the internet?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPYdzIt7p7s

and it got worse after he became PM, then the storm blew over.

didn't help that there was a Hindu celebration that of course he participated in soon after he became PM. I'm not saying it was bad that he did it, I'm saying that it made his standing worse.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

https://www.piped.video/watch?v=cPYdzIt7p7s

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.

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[–] [email protected] 78 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Growing up in a "non-denominational", independent fundamental Baptist house I was always taught that Catholics weren't Christians because they worship idols. Now that I've left the faith I would easily classify them as being Christian.

While I think many people actually do classify them as Christians they do have some significant differences in their beliefs and practices than most Protestant denominations; and being themselves the largest Christian denomination by far it can be useful in some analysis to treat them as a distinct entity (the answer to "percentage of global population that subscribe to a particular religion" is much more interesting when broken into "Christian Catholic: %" and "Christian Other: %").

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Catholics are Christians, but Christians are not necessarily Catholic. For example, Orthodox Christians are not Catholic. Being Catholic requires, at the bare minimum, agreement with the Holy See and implicitly the dogma he endorses. Even this "minor" difference can be used to find non-Catholic Christians.

Precisely, Catholic ⊊ Christian.

The reason why this is the case has to do with the history of Christianity, specifically the various schisms throughout the ages as the Christian faith evolved. That's an incredibly complicated topic which I'm not qualified to discuss.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago

Catholics see themselves as the root form of Christianity that other versions forked from. Whilst it's not technically true, as there are many versions of Christianity that pre-date Catholicism, in most countries where the term "Catholics and Christians" is used, it's accurate enough

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