this post was submitted on 09 May 2025
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[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 weeks ago

Yep, the right peddles sexy chest-beating wishful thinking and conspiracy theories which sells itself, the left has to sell the actual hard work that is needed - and yes frequently leans into chasing stupid celebrity endorsements and fluff and getting bogged down in the weeds or getting tripped up by well-meaning labels that get twisted used as battering rams against them like DEI, Woke, Socialist, etc.

Unfortunately we cannot win by being as bad as them, that is the burden of being on the righteous path of fairness, logic and reason.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago

Long term strategy, across decades, short term tactics. The right has actual goals, and uses culture nonsense to mask it. The Dems have cultural nonsense.

Show me the long term Democrat strategy and how they're going to accomplish it. I'd love to see it. I'd even help.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

It's only the same if most people buy snake oil.

The problem is that most people buy snake oil unless they have reveived a good education.

Makes you wonder why the left is not improving education, even outside the school framework.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The left does enhance education where possible. It's just a massive up hill battle when public education is reduced and underfunded every time a conservative gains power, and isn't enhanced much at all when a liberal gains power...

Please, explain how a minority is supposed to win against a hostile majority?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago

There is no general answer because by default, the majority wins.

For education, I would focus on a small number of communities and pool all resources to figure out what works.

Then use the desire of other communities for the hopefully existing improvements to spread the system.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

In addition to suggesting more dramatic work on delivering effective government that aides & protects people, I'd complained they need to engage the people where they at

Frankly, adapting a message isn’t enough. They need to beat Republicans at social media, have their own answer to right-wing influencers & podcasters like Joe Rogan, probably pump out their own viral bullshit, answer Republican troll farms with Democrat troll farms.

to be answered on here with

This is such a boomer take. This is like trying to claim Clinton lost in 2016 because she didn’t tweet enough or use the right young-person slang, skibidi

The Right loves to organize & build a long-term strategy to "own the libs", stack the courts, pass anti-abortion legislation at the state level. It seems the Left's answer to "own the libs" is to also "own the libs". "The libs" don't catch a break.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

The left doesn't understand how Joe Rogan got popular in the first place. It's because he's authentic. If the left tried to make a Joe Rogan, he would be engineered in some DNC lab, given carefully-written scripts written by consultants, put through numerous focus groups...and would fail utterly.

If they were actually authentic, on the other hand, they would get canceled almost immediately for either platforming a problematic person or having problematic opinions themselves.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

From my young person's perspective, it seems that the DNC and indeed, people to the left of the DNC, have bought into the notion of the "personal brand" to the point that it's impossible to be a left-of-Republican influencer who doesn't have an extremely manicured public image. And I think young people are tired of this, I myself get annoyed when I scroll by yet another leftist argument about minute differences in word choice despite agreeing with their overall goals.

It's a side effect of social media I guess. When confronted with everyone's idea of a good person, and when the most inflammatory takes rise to the top, the only people who can be authentic are the people who don't care about being a good person.

It's like, remember when Slim fucking Shady was releasing anti-Bush tracks? Let's get that back. (Give this idea to the DNC and they'd think I'm literally asking them to get Eminem to make the next Fight Song.)

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The left doesn’t understand how Joe Rogan got popular in the first place. It’s because he’s authentic

He's an authentic idiot.

The DNC has no authenticity though, you're right there.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago

He's an authentic idiot.

No argument there. I don't like him, but I can see why he's appealing to some people.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

DNC isn't left wing. Look at what they did to Bernie, and then realize even Bernie is barely left wing in the international Overton Window.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago

I didn't say that the DNC was left wing. They've almost completely corralled the left, though.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The left had a Joe Rogan. His name was Joe Rogan.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago

I don't know enough about Joe Rogan to say that he was never left, but the dude strikes me as a populist and a contrarian. I expect him to be favorable towards anybody who's standing up against the establishment, left or right.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The left are really good at becoming disorganized and eating itself though. And the right knows this. All the right has to do is making one comment that pits one minority against the other and boom : left will be out for another week sorting itself out before they reorganize again against the next thing the right does.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm not sure I understand you. Can you give an example of a conservative making a comment that pits one minority against the other that took the left out for a week?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

"Trans athletes should not compete in competitive sports."

"Palestine is a terrorist state."

"Israel is committing genocide."

These aren't really said by any one right wing taking head, in fact they work better if a "left wing" person says it; think Bill Mahr.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

It seems terribly dismissive to frame these as a result of right wing (or other) agitation. There are significant differences between people who want to throw trans people under the bus and those who don't, etc.

Sure, it must be nice for the right to be able to rally around whatever false talking points they gin up for the day. But when you have people who care about the truth, they will disagree sometimes.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The divisions aren't a result of right wing bigotry, but they are exploited by right wing propagandists.

What they actually do is frame all of these arguments without nuance. Then when corporate media goes with that framing you have reductivist talking points that bully out any reasonable debate.

This is a superpower that the GOP has and the DNC cannot replicate with the current level of public discourse.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago

I just want to point out what you're saying now directly contradicts the original comment I replied to.

I don't think we disagree very much. My point was and still is that divisions in the left come from policy disputes, not the nonsense that the base comment still hasn't supported.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 weeks ago

I see him more of a self defined ‘centrist’ that is fully on the right but just disguises himself when it suits the argument he’s having

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I spend a lot of time wondering what "independent media" is supposed to be

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Independent Media is basically anything that's not owned by Disney/ABC, Viacom, NBC Universal, CBS, Newscorp (Fox), or Warner Bros.

In theory, on the internet, anybody can set up their own website and release their material.

But in terms of sheer scale, every online punk zine combined doesn't have half the reach of each of the 'independent' websites funded by some natural gas lobbying firm or ghoulish right wing family (other than the Murdochs) or supplement company sold exclusively through a pyramid scheme.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago

And how independent were some of those media really when they were crying they couldn't exist without the USAID regime money?

[–] [email protected] 20 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (3 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

and the hegemonic internet platorms bias their algorithms against it

Is there any sign that they've tried? The Right churn out volumes of viral ragebait against the Left & spread it through troll farms & bots on social media while promoting themselves with right-wing podcasters. I don't think "the algorithm" cares about the political orientation of ragebait as long as it keeps users online.

Part of the problem is less "algorithm" and more self-sorting as people migrate to online communities they align with more & shut out dissent. Nearly everyone was on Facebook & Twitter before. Instead of migrating, we could stay put and deploy similar tactics as (or better than) the right to manipulate social media.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago

Bathroom graffiti.

Zines.

Pamphlets.

Buy some postage labels, write “Trump is a rapist,” “Defund ICE” and stick them up when no one is looking.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Use their tactics. Is it immoral to lie to an idiot to get them to vote in their own interests? They're already buying all kinds of bullshit like flat earth, anti vac, and trickle down economics; infiltrate their circles and cause confusion in the narrative. Break into their walled communities and drive division within their ranks.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

The group everyone on the left are overlooking are the impoverished and struggling to get educated. The last minute trump grabbed the win by talking to them and convincing they’d be rich(which of course turned out to be a lie) but that is what got him the win. The Conservative Party leader in Canada was only coming out ahead for a while when he spoke about axing taxes and speaking to the impoverished/talking about bringing down house prices. He had no plan when it came time to show his notes but just talking about it was enough to throw gen z into a tizzy and just jump to the conservatives blindly.

Notice: they do this at the last minute to grab the wins.

Now that the race is done the loudest group are the MAGA which make up anywhere from 20-25% of the voters. Had it been maga vs conservatives the conservatives would have won in a landslide.

So don’t spend the time dividing incels from ultra religious from capitalists. Cuz you’re right. They will just stick together for each others main goal. It goes inherently against how the left operate.

Divide the impoverished from them. Focus on poverty. Focus on what is the worst thing about poverty and how you want to improve their life.

easier obtained education, health, work and housing.

Also mental health. Amp this up 10 fold. At least maybe those influenced by the incels have a chance to feel seen other than flocking to Joe rogan’s toxicity.

Address fentynal. Address mental health and addiction. And address it big time. Not just a nod. Make it a life goal. This is a hot topic in which everyone’s life especially in poverty have been affected by it. I can tell you first hand in free grief groups right now about 70-80% people have lost a loved one to fentynal. I wish I were kidding but this is a real sad reality in this moment. It is fucking scary how little it is talked about while how much a grip it has on society. And I dunno, maybe the ultra political dems at large don’t get caught up in this enough to notice it but it is kind of a big deal and a war zone on home soil right now. It really does need to be addressed by all parties way more than it is right now

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 5 days ago)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

People only want to hear about their own problem. If you address all problems you repell everybody because nobody can stand listening to all of them, apart from an insignificant few voters.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

This is not a care quota. This is about real and actual change. and I didnt get through what I went through to have it minimalized nor dismissed by a troll online who hasn’t stepped outside in this real world to see what I have and isn’t here for discussion about real problems let alone advocate for real change.

Checked your profile.

User: Seeigel poopoos ‘card says moops’ on every post. Seeigel is not here to help anyone or engage on any actual discussions. On my blocklist. I don’t negotiate with online trolls.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

This is basically how I see the democratic party. The "real base" is college educated people who care about things being good, but are intelligent enough to see beyond first order effects. These are the sorts of people who read think pieces in The Atlantic, and who also have a subscription to The Economist because they feel it is important to see many sides of the political spectrum. Unfortunately, these people make up a rather small minority of the voting population.

The remainder of the Democratic party's voters are made up of diverse interest groups which are voting for their own narrow self interest - various racial minorities, sexual minorities, women, union members, etc.

The challenge of the Democratic party is convincing an ornery old black man who regularly uses homophobic slurs to complain about his nephew and a 33 year old white woman who jogs during her lunch break when working to save the dolphins that they are on the same side.

Meanwhile, the "real base" of the Republican party is made up of a not very diverse group of "real Americans" who are also voting (as they see it) for their own self interest. But there's not really nobel intellectual class in the Republican party - there are the elites, who cynically use the plebs to enact their chosen policies, and there are the plebs who cheer for their elites even when they are told exactly how they are getting screwed.

Democrats have fretted for years about how they could gain the success the Republicans have at getting their message out and mobilizing their base, and the reality is that they just can't. Democrats are, quite simply, not dumb enough to fall for that bullshit.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Then lie and cheat to get the desired mass and change things to make it harder to collapse?

I get what you're saying, but it also seems defeatist.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

No, I think the Dems need a different strategy than the GOP, rather than fruitlessly trying to emulate them.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago

Taking the high road only goes so far when the opposition will literally kill to get their way.

[–] [email protected] 54 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

"Well how do you keep yourself from murdering and raping all you want without religion?"

"I do murder and rape all I want, for, you see, I do not want to murder or rape!"

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

it's called consensual BDSM (obviously not the first bit though)

[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

This one was always really funny to me. As if their supposed god himself hasn't explicitly commanded (and even committed) both of these sins on numerous occasions.

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