Yeah! There are LOTS of Cleveland communities, but I have declaired [email protected] to be the one true official Cleveland community.
No, see? I really did declaire this
So come join us, and talk about Tim Misneys eyebrows.
To discuss how to grow and manage communities / magazines on Lemmy, Mbin, Piefed and Sublinks
Resources:
Megathreads:
Rules:
Yeah! There are LOTS of Cleveland communities, but I have declaired [email protected] to be the one true official Cleveland community.
No, see? I really did declaire this
So come join us, and talk about Tim Misneys eyebrows.
Feel free to post on the other Cleveland communities to make people aware of yours
Duplicates are a minor issue. That said, solution #2 (multi-comms) is considerably better than #3 (comms following comms).
The problems with #3 are:
There's no good solution for that. On the other hand, the problems the author associates with #2 are easy to solve, if users are allowed to share their multi-comms with each other as links:
Additionally, multi-comms address the root issue. The root issue is not that you got duplicate communities; it's that communities in general, even without duplicates, are hard to discover. Also note that the root issue is not exclusive to federated platforms, it pops up in Reddit too; it's a consequence of users being able to create comms by themselves.
About #1 (merging communities): to a certain extent users already do this. Nothing stops you from locking [[email protected]](/c/[email protected])
with a pinned thread like "go to [[email protected]](/c/[email protected])
".
This is a minor part of the text, but I feel in the mood to address it:
I post once to gauge interest then never post again because I got choice paralysis
The same users who get "choice paralysis" from deciding where to post are, typically, the ones who: can't be arsed to check rules before posting, can't be arsed to understand what someone else said before screeching, comment idiotic single-liners that add nothing but noise, whine "wah, TL;DR!" at anything with 100+ chars... because all those things backtrack to the same mindset: "thinking is too hard lol. I'm entitled to speak my empty mind, without thinking if I'm contributing or not lmao."
Is this really the sort of new user that we old users want to welcome here? Growth is important, but unrestricted growth regardless of cost is cancer.
The same users who get “choice paralysis” from deciding where to post are, typically, the ones who
I'm not so sure. I sometimes have choice paralysis again on a topic I'm not familiar with, and I'm sure quite a lot of other people do as well
I'm sure plenty exceptions exist - that's why I said "typically", it's that sort of generalisation that applies less to real individuals and more to an abstract "typical user".
@[email protected] , which is quite active as well, has a similar experience: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/39248886/17090166
To me, choice paralysis happens to most of people, whatever their familiarity level with the platform. I would actually be worried if someone knew exactly where to post for any topic, because it would mean they probably just default to their home instance
Multicommunities are/grouping communities is being discussed in this issue atm:
The issue of multiple communities is the same as reddit. Lemmy lacks the volume of users for the level of niches people are sometimes interested in. A post about pancakes does not need a specialized niche on a platform with limited total active users.
The regular daily users on Lemmy are likely not using subscription feeds very much if at all. Those that are less regular are likely using these features more, but they are far less likely to discover new communities.
In my opinion, there is a disconnect with people that expect Lemmy to mirror other platforms 1:1 or nearly. This perspective is lacking an understanding of the scale of the user base. Building hyper niche communities and expecting them to grow organically out of a vacuum is a fallacy. Communities must grow as branches of a tree where they are born out of a strong base community.
This is where bad moderation is a massive problem. We need loosely defined, liberally moderated, strong general communities first. These must have minimal rules and mostly passive moderation so that you know c/food is a safe place to post anything about your pancakes even if it is a pancake with tomato sauce, cheese, pineapple, and ham. You should know that c/food is a place where even your odd pancake will get some love and motivate you to share whatever heinous pastry topping atrocity you make in the asylum kitchen next week. /s
Bad mods that are overactive and largely narcissistic are in my opinion the largest problem on Lemmy. There is nothing hard about being a mod. The community does all of the real work of flagging issues because the community ultimately is all that matters. The rules are guidelines. Flags need to be handled with care and depth. Just because someone flags something that does not mean they are correct. I've flagged some stuff that was poorly explained and ineffective, where only admin could have seen what I was talking about. I've also seen a few where the person flagging is the underlying problem. There is certainly need to weed out bigots and I'm not for harming anyone. There are places where heavy moderation is important and needed, but that kind of mindset bleeds into the periphery too much here IMO.
As a user, I don't want authoritarian stupidity and narcissistic nonsense. I like having options for posting in other parallel communities when I see some community has a dozen pedantic rules. I will just post in the more obscure place that is not so narcissistic and anti community in the big picture perspective.
While I appreciate having those obscure options, I think it is a MAJOR fallacy to allow narcissistic mods to continue in any community but especially large and high participation communities. Mods do not matter. No one has ever made a post or comment because they checked who the mods are and used that information as a reason for posting or commenting. They post because of the way the place intuitively resonates, if it seems like a safe place, and because of the social democratic participation within the space. The only community that can be owned by a mod is the one where the mod is the only person that has ever posted. If you do not agree with this, you are ultimately a fascist authoritarian, whether you can see and acknowledge that is not my problem. Communities are a de facto democracy when multiple users post within them. The mod does not own these users, their posts, or the comments. The mod is only a custodian; a janitor. The mod comes last. The mod is a servant, not a leader. Anyone making forced posts is doing more harm than good. Some people are really great at finding good content and posting regularly. This role is not tied to the implications and responsibilities of being a mod. This convolution of participation and moderation is the primary issue at the largest scale of abstraction that goes unaddressed in the link aggregation platform format and remains outside of collective awareness. The convolution of the mod role in abstract, masks emotional investment and fixation of narcissists, and that leads to harmful actions towards well intentioned users and purging of any difference in opinion that evokes a negative emotion from an underlying authoritarian or egomaniacal person. The resultant actions cull true diversity of perspectives and conversational depth in an extremest like feedback loop. When users participate in good faith and receive mob like negativity, it is bad for Lemmy growth. However, when good faith participation results in mod actions it causes disenfranchisement on another level and often leads to short or long term migration off of the platform.
A moderator should have a better ethical foundation. We are all humans. We are all often wrong, or misunderstood. Still, in these instances, as a human you have a right to exist. We all have bad days or overreact with our emotions at times. Yet still, you have a right to exist. Some of us are compromised in various ways that may require a measure of empathy kindness and understanding that the average person in the community is not capable of understanding by default due to outlier circumstance. The person may be depressed, abused, in isolation, or neurodivergent in various ways. These are especially vulnerable to harm from a narcissistic mod. In some of these cases, disenfranchisement from negative interaction may directly contribute to real world harm and even death through indirect means. For this reason, all moderator actions MUST be considered harmful by default. Enforcing opinion, pedantism, and all unnecessary actions against a well intentioned user are reckless narcissism without the abstract big picture understanding of what is best for the real humans that the actions impact. Ignoring these potential edge cases is authoritarian incompetence and shows the person lacks the ethical foundation required to be fair and just, acting in the best interest of the community.
The issue of poor moderation through de facto authoritarianism grossly contradicting democratic participation of all users, is the primary issue of all link aggregators that goes unaddressed.
The biggest issue for Lemmy at the moment is instances that do not update to the latest version of Lemmy. If devs are hamstrung from fixing issues in new revisions, the entire platform and discussion of growth is mute. When the largest instance on Lemmy (LW) is not on the latest version of Lemmy, or the devs fail to ensure the stability required, progress is halted and complaints are useless negativity with no potential for change.
I am a (nearly) daily user and I use the subscription feed. I am subscribed to lots of communities and if I used the "all" feed, I'd miss some of the posts to what I am interested in. So IMO it makes no sense for me to use "all".
I'm on Lemmy off and on for hours a day. I see most posts using the "all" feed. Few people are in social isolation from physical disability with near infinite spare time or other circumstances that enable this. There are many times I wish Lemmy had more total volume of participation than the "all" feed. This is what I want to grow.
Never thought about communities following communities. It actually makes a lot of sense and would solve the fragmentation issue in an elegant and "democratic" way.
If admins really bother doing it. A lot of communities are already dead with no active admins to follow others
This use case seems to be more for situations when you do have 2 more relatively active communities (with one being smaller).
I was actually thinking of something similar a few days ago. The conclusion I came to is "comms as users."
Communities being able to follow other communities is part of that. I think it'd be great.
IDK, man. It's not that hard to just check a few of the communities and see which ones are active, and then post to those ones. And the benefit you get, for asking people to take literally a couple of minutes of effort to sort out how to get involved with some particular topic, is pretty significant.
I'm not trying to say not to make good solutions to it, but also, trying to make everything maximally easy carries a significant down side, in that it attracts people who want to put minimal effort into everything (including their posts and their interactions with others once they've arrived on the network.)
It's not that hard to just check a few of the communities and see which ones are active, and then post to those ones
Everyone will be different, but I can attest that these types of decisions do slow my workflow down:
This can take more than just "a couple minutes", and I'm pretty sure I am in the minority of users, even on Lemmy, who are willing to put in the effort.
Proposal 3 in the article seems to be an elegant solution which also does not give a single community all of the power.
There are only so many of us posting here.
The day we get 10 different people posting about quite popular topics like movies, then sure. But having the current split while there are 5 people posting for the entire platform seems counterproductive.
Another example I have is [email protected] and [email protected]. Both communities have similar rules, instances are similar, everything is similar.
There is one poster there that seems to prefer the programming.dev one, so I have to crosspost everything they post to the dbzer0 one so that people subbed to that one don't miiss anything.
[email protected] is a bit similar. It's mostly a one-person show (rough estimation, 80% of the posts are one person), but they wouldn't move to [email protected], while we have discussion posts, active mods, everything.
So sure, it's not that hard, but it doesn't mean that people will do it.
It sounds like community pruning is the better solution here. Users don't need to find dead remote communities in their search results. If there are multiple active communities, that's not an issue, and there's no real reason to homogenize them behind lizard brain FOMO. If there's one active community and 6 dead ones, there's no reason for users to find any of the dead ones.
Forcibly merging communities that exist on completely different websites just because they run the same, or even just similar, software continues to scream "I want centralization".
Forcibly merging communities that exist on completely different websites just because they run the same, or even just similar, software continues to scream “I want centralization
No, it's just consolidation of activity to a sustainable level.
Consolidation happened in the past
Those communities have no active counterpart, are they a threat to decentralization?
Forcibly merging communities that exist on completely different websites just because they run the same, or even just similar, software continues to scream "I want centralization".
The "merging" in Proposal 3 would be mutually opt-in by community moderators, not forced.
It sounds like community pruning is the better solution here. Users don't need to find dead remote communities in their search results.
Who gets to determine if a community is dead or not? That seems like a form of centralization.
Fully agree with solution three, federated communities is the way. Solution two is just dumb and is basically just the subbed feed
I still think multi-communities would be a good feature, even if not for this particular problem. (For example, to a have a dedicated "music" feed that includes several communities for different music styles you are interested in.)
But if you sub to all of them then there is zero need for such a feed. It adds extra work of making the feed and having to select the feed. There is barely enough content for viewing subscribed my new, why split a post or two a day into a separate feed?