Ask Lemmy

I am from Canada, and while the flag could go either way for me, mounties, even in their blood-red uniforms do turn my stomach. (Paintings by Kent Monkman, showcasing the "Sixties Scoop"

Our past further back has not been much help.

In addition to the physical appropriation of land was the colonial effort to eliminate the transmission of cultural identity, traditional skills, and connection to the land. Beginning in 1883 (while this was the date of the first federally established church school, similar institutions existed as early as the 1830s, years before Canadian federation) Indian Residential Schools (IRSs) were established in Canada (as were American Indian Boarding Schools in 1862). Children were forcibly removed from their families and were institutionalized in IRSs with the explicit goal of ‘taking the Indian out of the child’. These mandated church-run IRSs endeavoured to save the souls of the ‘savages’ by immersing them in Euro–Christian beliefs and eradicating access to traditional socialization values, language, practices and ways of life. By the 1930s, roughly 75% of First Nations children attended IRSs, as did many Métis and Inuit children. The last of the IRSs was closed in 1996, but by then several generations of children had experienced the mistreatment that abounded in these institutions.

Then to really prove we could be as evil as everyone thinks we're polite, we added this gem to our crown.

"It is readily acknowledged that Indian children lose their natural resistance to illness by habituating so closely in the residential schools, and that they die at a much higher rate than in their villages. But this alone does not justify a change in the policy of this Department, which is geared towards a final solution of our Indian Problem." -Duncan Campbell Scott to BC Indian Agent Gen. Major D. MacKay.

And there are those who say it is in the past, and everyone is crying over things from long ago, yet 1996 is not so long ago for Residential Schools, and our police deny any ongoing wrong-doings. I for one do not feel patriotism for our past, though I have some small hope for our future.

I would advise you not to hate people you don’t know just because they fly a flag but your feelings are valid. Nationalism is a toxic ideology founded in violence and oppression at its very core.

The country where I was born and raised is 900 years old. This implies a lit of history, both good and bad.

The country was literally started because our first king decided he wasn't going to allow his mother and her lover to steal his father's lands. After that, the Pope demanded our country to pay the church a huge sum in order to be recognized, the king said "we'll eventually come to that" and never payed. We were taken over by our neighbouring country at some point because of blood ties and after 75 years we just said "enough is enough, these guys are getting housted". We fought Napoleon. We had a bloody civil war. Somewhere inbetween all of this we decided "Let's build a lot of boats and see where we can go." because the price of spices was to damn high. And more recently we got out of bed for a morning, threw down a fascist dictatorship, and went back to our quiet life. Nobody cares or notices us but yet we have one of the most powerful passports in the world.

But why all of this boasting?

It's cool to have all this history and background. But I don't owe my country nothing. I owe who I am to my family and friends and I owe to the future generations to remember where we come from and teach them the same I learned by myself: we are our country. We decide what we stand for and we represent the values we want to spread.

The government of your land may be corrupt today but it does not have or needs to represent you. And by refusing that, you put up your own resistance. No matter how small, that is resistance. And if you feel your flag needs to be reclaimed, put it upside down.

Stay strong, OP.

As a Canadian, my favourite thing about the American flag is there isn't a lot of room for a 51st star on there. It would break the symmetry.

As to our maple leaf, I've had mixed feelings about it. As a kid, I thought it was cute and friendly as national flags go. Then later, watching assholes in Dodge Rams with the flag whipping around next to their Fuck Trudeau stickers during that aggravatingly endless trucker rally left me less enthused. But now with Trump threatening annexation, I've rediscovered its beauty!

My hunch – both the Red Tribe and the Blue Tribe, for whatever reason, identify “America” with the Red Tribe. Ask people for typically “American” things, and you end up with a very Red list of characteristics – guns, religion, barbecues, American football, NASCAR, cowboys, SUVs, unrestrained capitalism.

That means the Red Tribe feels intensely patriotic about “their” country, and the Blue Tribe feels like they’re living in fortified enclaves deep in hostile territory.

https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/

You aren't unjustified in this. Politics has become a complex web, and it's difficult to grasp a singular feeling for the nation they pertain to, such as pride, especially when you politicize something like the flag. Even if your stance is on the other side of the spectrum, this is on America.

No, you've started to see things more clearly.

Patriotism leads to nationalism, xenophobia, and racism. Not always, of course, but often enough to make it a horrible thing. Our communities are only as good as we make them, and any notion that presupposes greatness is antithetical to continued improvement.

Don't forget who took that from you.

Any day you're able to rise above the cult of nationalism is a good day.

The flag doesn't bother me but the pledge to it does. The traitor flags (Confederate battle flag and one bearing a president's name) do.

On a semi-related note, I’m glad that Superman’s motto was updated to “Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow” back in 2021.

You are not wrong. Seeing jingoism and corporatized patriotism for the sham that they are really opens your eyes to how much of it truly exists. A person who wants no politics in life is often fine with a national anthem, a gigantic flag stretched across a stadium, with jets flying over for a Cheez-It Citrus Bowl and has absolutely no idea that it is political propaganda for nationalism and perpetual war.

In my 50+years here, it has only gotten worse and worse. We've always stuck our military where it doesn't belong, back to the beginning with genociding indigenous peoples here. Now we stick military bases all over the planet and strong arm every other nation into unbalanced alliance. We create conflict for oil and to line the pockets of defense contractors. We aid those currently committing genocide and protect the perpetrators from receiving international justice. Nationalism and fascism snap together like two magnets.

Every time I am told to stand for a national anthem at a professional for-profit sporting event, I think of these things and remain sitting.

youre not alone. the american flag makes me sick. overt patriotism has been coopted by magats, and its hard to see it any other way.

if someone feels the need to wave the american flag, i feel the need to be suspicious of your lack of empathy and possible fascist undertones. sorry.

Yes and no.

You can can display an American flag and not be a facist. Facists can’t co-opt the US flag.

The flags that look similar to the American flag, but have a blue line or are black/grey are the ones that cringe me up. Those are actual false flags and are anti-patriotic. Right up there with the “rebel” flag.

Maybe get a tiny little flag and put it in your garden.

Same, I just feel kind of gross now when I see it. Sad as I still love my country, just not what it's doing now.

Every time I see flags out in public, it just reminds me of authority.

I don't like authority, from schools administrators to employers, or even parents, fuck them all, wannabe fascists.

Flags, school logos, corporate logos, or the concept of the "family name" its all the same. (I'd change the family name if it doesn't cause so much paperwork trouble)

Maybe this flag as a replacement?

I kinda know what you mean... I used to not think anything weird about seeing an American flag, sometimes it even made me feel patriotic. Now when I see a car with an American flag sticker I assume the person driving probably has a loaded gun and is desperate to get into an argument about something

I've always felt pride in the ideals of my nation, and shame from its actions.

But at least I still hold onto the ideals. It's not nothing.