this post was submitted on 29 Jan 2025

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172

Is the 'stuck' economy a global phenomenon? Americans share frustrations about not being able to get ahead despite education - is this a universal experience? (lemmy.ml)

submitted 2 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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I've been noticing a recurring sentiment among Americans - frustration and disillusionment with the economy. Despite having gone to school, earned a solid education, and worked hard, many feel they can't get ahead or even come close to the standard of living their parents enjoyed.

I'm curious - is this experience unique to the United States, or do people in other countries share similar frustrations?

Do people in Europe, Australia, Canada, or elsewhere feel like they're stuck in a rut, unable to achieve financial stability or mobility despite their best efforts?

Are there any countries or regions that seem to be doing things differently, where education and hard work can still lead to a comfortable life?

Let's hear from our international community - what's your experience with economic mobility (or lack thereof) in your country?"

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

i'm brazilian, my brother moved to Portugal some years ago and his quality of life improved dramatically. He used to live near a bank that was robbed pretty frequently and that was pretty frightening

Even though he moved to another country, my bro isn't rich (sure seems that way though, compared to living standards here lol). It's just that there you can be not rich and still have quality of life, safety and be able to actually afford things.

I'm currently living in Brazil and rly what worries me most is that one day I will want/need to live alone but rent can be very expensive (i'll probably never own a home or even my own apartment, this is unacceptable and it's the reality we live in), and the minimum wage in Brazil (and probably lots of other countries) is absolutely dogshit.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 12 hours ago

I'm Brazilian too, now living in Australia

I think what's happening over there now is something that Brazilians are used to since the 80s at least, when the prosperity of the earlier decades wrapped up. So I'm told by Brazilian boomers, given I was a kid in the 80s.

So yep I'm thinking to myself that US is getting to officially belong to the 3rd world.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 16 hours ago

The rich don't stay rich by letting other people join their club

[–] [email protected] 2 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

I'm curious about the same things - which you won't find in this thread. Apart from a couple people who actually tried to answer OP's question it's just typical blah-blah.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

We are reaching the limits of an "infinite growth" mindset. You can't make money infinitely, which is why we are witness unprecedented amounts of shrinkflation, price gouging, and of course, enshitification. And housing prices.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

The theory behind capitalism doesn't require infinite growth. A society could have continual "profit" based on the use of renewable resources. The explanation for why we're constantly expanding our exploitation of the planet is a little more complex than just an inherent trait of the economic system. That's kind of a nasty oversimplification that people apply.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (2 children)

An old unattributed saying, "Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist." Often attributed to Kenneth Boulding but there's no real sources for that.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

To quote a certain Ed Zitron:

The only thing that grows forever is cancer

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 hours ago

No, eventually it destroys the body's ability to function and dies.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

The only infinite growth I could think of is just bitcoin and shit. Just dilute gambling.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

That's not infinite. Bitcoin is just one of many participants in the wider currency market. The bet of people speculating on Bitcoin is that its market share in the market will continue to grow. So the absolute upper limit of its valuation is basically that of the global currency market. In more practical/realistic terms, it has technical constraints as-is that limit its use as a day-to-day currency, which limit it to a lower point, since other currencies have to be used for small transactions, and hence, have to take some other portion of the global currency market. And so on.

Not exactly gambling. Rather, the market is trying to anticipate and calculate these shifts in valuation. Individual participants may try to catch it early to get a good deal. Many will fail, including buying at a bad deal. People will get caught up in hype because it's a novel invention as opposed to some same-for-same replacement. That's just the price determination mechanism. Currency shifts, and market adjustments in general, are messy. Any time one currency dies, there's a flight to others.

Disclaimer: I have zero Bitcoin. Also this is just explaining mechanisms, not justifying or supporting them.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Take some of it with caution. Powerful forces are amplifying unhappiness.

Some things suck. No area is thriving. Dictators are taking power and there are several distressing wars.

Things have been worse and improved, but it us not a straight line.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

Yeah the more I learn history the I feel we are in an imperfect but exceptionally opportune time.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Not being coy: can you help me understand the word choice of "opportune"?

I've recently become fascinated by history and the underpinned stories that really get to the answers to the WHY questions.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 15 hours ago

We can organize easier and for things we wouldn't have even known were happening in the past. The Internet and our understand of how to interact with it is not very mature. That takes generational knowledge imo. Things are more chaotic and unprecedented than ever, and we at least have the opportunity to be more informed than at any other time in history. I think we can learn from the past and even if we fail we'll hopefully have helped future generations by giving them a good case study.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 18 hours ago

Well put. It's important to learn from history

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago

The world was experiencing unprecedented economic growth for decades in the run up to the 2008 crash. Sure there were some rocky periods but the general trend was upwards and even in the 70s where there were problems with inflation new technologies were improving people's living standards all the time.

Now we have growth stagnating; raw materials and international trade becoming more expensive (existing sources becoming depleted, tarrifs); then finally technological gains are happening but for consumers. I'm not sure I've seen a big improvement since the original iPhone.

The killer thing I haven't mentioned yet is overcentralisation of economies in major cities/hubs. If you want the best possible job then you probably need to move to a megacity like London, Paris, New York, Sydney... but then a shortage of new housing in these places has pushed prices into the stratosphere. You better hope you have an economically active partner who has also landed their dream job in megacity! Oh and the inheritance required for a deposit on a flat.

Within countries that last problem can be tackled with better industrial strategies to some extent. Maybe grants and subsidies to open say biotech labs in more affordable parts of the country. In theory since we have increasingly become service based economies, or producers of e-goods like digital copies of videogames, this should also be possible by doubling down on remote jobs as a viable mode of working and possibly offering tax breaks/financial incentives to move to less populated areas. Here in Scotland if you want to be a primary/elementary school teacher on a remote island you can command a salary of ~2x what you would get on the mainland as part of a scheme to entice teachers to live in remote communities.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

When the USSR broke up you had Russian cab drivers in NYC with PhDs. I worked with a woman programmer who had a PhD in condensed matter physics from Moscow State U.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 day ago (2 children)

American PhD here.

I’ve m only half-joking when I say I’m considering driving a cab somewhere in South America.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

You're only joking because I'm sure you haven't set foot in South America. US is getting there but it's still heaps of levels above when it gets to thieving and shooting cab drivers specifically.

Unless you're Chilean, in case you're more North American than South American kkkk

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Yeah I did the smart thing and walked away from research.

Total dead end, Industry don't care at all.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

Depends on the subject

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago

I had a sociology professor (who was brilliant and enlightening) who said that the future of the economy was in services. That was in 1999 / 2000. Now we have subscription everything (with rampant price hikes) and software-as-a-service (SaaS) and the like. Companies / corporations get to get fat on this shift in the business model. Workers get shafted with Uber and such. Anyone with a 9-5 career is seeing the ever-present squeeze of the markets ("we must grow at all costs or we're dead") slowly turn in on them and reduce their prospects.

After the end of the Soviet Union, people talked about "the end of history." Wrong. This is the end. The beginning happened somewhere not very long in the past. We're still at the opening, however. It's only going to keep getting worse and worse as capitalism eats itself and the world. All the best times already happened (lucky boomers). Strap in. It's gonna be a hell of a ride (or a ride straight to hell).

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