this post was submitted on 08 Jul 2025
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(As a general concept of how a society should run, not intended as a US-specific question.)

I sometimes see people on the internet saying that giving people easy access to guns is too risky and there should be stricter gun control, while simultaneously wanting to abolish the police? I'm just confused on what people really want?

You cant both abolish the police and then also disarm the citizens, gotta pick one. So which is it, internet? Self-policing with guns? Or reform the police?

[Please state what country you're in]

::: spoiler


(Also its funny how the far-right of the US is both pro-gun and pro-police, I'm confused by that as well) :::

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

USA citizen here (unfortunately)

Guns are designed to kill, or at least cause harm.

I don't think we should kill, or even cause the kind of harm that guns inflict.

∴ Guns shouldn't exist.

I recognize this is a super idealistic approach, but this is just a "general concept of how a society should run."

Yes, I'm taking into account hunting. We shouldn't be killing non-human animals either. Sports is a more difficult problem to tackle for me, I recognize others like shooting for sporting events, and it's not causing harm inherently. Might even be safer than American football, lol.

Having said that, a more realistic approach would be a gun buy back program and a slow phase out of guns for our police or at least a reduction / demilitarization of our police. I have no hope that this will happen, but wow, it'd be nice.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (1 children)

For the US I feel like this is a lost cause. Good luck trying to repeal the 2nd amendment. Cat's out of the bag, the gun discussion happened in 1789, we're like 249 years late. How do you close the pandora's box?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago

Yeah, I mean a potential path could be a narrowing of how a "well regulated Militia" is defined. But I agree, it's a fully lost cause.

What's the point of an organized society and a government anyway? Not to care for each other and reduce harm, right? /s

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 hours ago

In the US, The police don't protect people. They don't actually have any obligations to do so. I am kinda wondering how the "police protecting" works out when say several big dudes kick your door in and bad-stuff you and your house. The gun owner defense themselves in that scenario, but the police-reliant folks...do what? Wait for the murder investigation to catch the baddies? It's an odd predicament, given how awful guns can be and how pad they are for a society. As proven by stats from pro and anti-gun countries. Personally, I will continue to carry a pistol...even if it has only been used against a rabid racoon that was getting too close to the house. I don't think civilians need dozens of insane weapons though. So I don't know where that puts me on the spectrum. Gun user, and enjoyer, that recognizes they are a huge problem.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 hours ago

In a functional society, gun should not be allowed to be used for personal defense by the public, the police should have a monopoly on using guns for protection.

But, guns should be allowed for hunting, sports and a general hobby.

If a member of the public used a gun for self defense, an investigation would determine if that was justified or not.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 13 hours ago

I think the people should be allowed to have guns within reason. What I mean by ‘within reason’ is that no civilian should be able to own something ridiculous like an RPG. I don’t believe that to be an unreasonable demand. Though I must say, it would be cool to use one.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 15 hours ago

US

Q1: people don't trust the police

Q2: people don't know what they want, but they do know they don't trust the police.

Q3: This is a false premise. You can do both, but I am gathering you believe that the resulting "lawlessness" would be bad.

Q4: the best take is to reform police to the point that most do not carry firearms and are basically trained social workers. Firearms should be greatly regulated by a combination of insurance, technology, and psychological testing.

Q5: The concept that good guns cancel out bad guns is fantasy.

Q6: Yes, this can be done independently of whatever US decides to do with gun control

[–] [email protected] 6 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

Canada.

I think that the bar to owning any projectile weapon should be very high, and have tiers that go progressively higher with the type of weapon requested. Hunting rifles? Comparatively easy. Hip-wielded auto cannon capable of sending 300+ rounds a minute down range? Yeah, that’s a decade-plus of effort to get licensed and approved.

Proactive qualifiers would include psychological testing, social media monitoring, lack of criminal convictions, wait times for both weapons and ammo, tracking of ammo consumption, extensive training and marksmanship minimums, and red flag laws. Any violent ideation such as fascism, accelerationism, religious extremism, or white supremacy would be instant disqualifiers.

On the flip side, once someone passes the thresholds, they should be able to own any damn weapon they want. Even clear up to naval ordinance and other heavy weaponry. Want to romp around your 500ha property with a fully functional Abrams tank? Go right ahead - just ensure that a fired shell never goes beyond your property’s border or there will be legal hell to pay.

Now active carry is yet another issue. At which point, unless the person is in a high-risk job or has been under the receiving end of actual threats to their life, any carry should be highly questionable. If an average person wants to cosplay with live weaponry while out in public, questions need to be raised about their mental stability. A mentally stable person is not going to be wandering about with an AR-15 slung over their shoulder - there is absolutely no need for that under virtually 100% of all cases.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

US here.

I think that if the police are allowed to have it, everyone should be allowed to have it. Police are not the military; they're civilians. So all other civilians should have the same access cops get, or cops should get the same access that everyone else does.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

I don't think that police are technically considered civillians, although they are under civilian control (of the governor/mayor).

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

They are absolutely civilians, although they no longer believe they are. Technically the military is supposed to be under civilian control as well (e.g., the governor is supposed to have control of the national guard in their state, the president is supposed to control the six branches of the military).

Look at it this way: the military is not supposed to be used for civilian law enforcement. That very, very strongly implies that police are not military, and are hence civilian.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 21 hours ago (3 children)

New Zealand.

Our laws make carrying anything with the intent to use it as a weapon (in self defence or not) a crime - whether it's a gun, sword, pepper spray, cricket bat, screwdriver, or lollipop stick. This makes sure that when someone robs a corner store the owner gets jailed for having a baseball bat behind the counter. It's absurd.

The law not only doesn't equalise your chances, it actively forces you to be at a disadvantage when defending yourself, and by the time any police arrive the assailant is long gone. Most criminals don't have guns (except for the multiple armed gangs of course), but plenty of them bring bladed weapons, there have been multiple cases of machete attacks.

I'm all for gun ownership for the purpose of property defence. Including strong legal defences for home and store owners repelling assailants.

I don't think just anyone should be able to go and purchase a gun no questions asked, it should probably be tied to some kind of mandatory formal training, e.g. participation in army reserves. It should definitely be more difficult than getting a driver's licence (but I also think a driver's licence should be harder to get than it is now. The idea that you can go and sit a written test and then legally pilot a two ton steel box in areas constantly surrounded by very squishy people is kind of absurd to me).

[–] [email protected] 1 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

pepper spray

Not even that?

Fuck that law.

Pepper spray is for non-lethal self-defence and should be legal.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 21 hours ago

Anyone fearful enough can come up with an excuse to own a gun.

My line is for ending Nazis and fascists, beyond that the protection of life only.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

I thought In New Zealand you are allowed to walk into an airport with a spear for ceremonial welcomes.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 18 hours ago

Disclaimer, I dont live in New Zealand, or know anything about it's laws, but a ceremonial welcome hardly seems the same as intent to use it as a weapon.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 21 hours ago

Long guns and hunting weapons sure. I'd ban everything else with heavy prison terms for illegal firearms.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 21 hours ago

I think all guns oughta be allowed, but certain calibres should require registration with an official state militia. Granted, I also think we oughta have those too besides just the state and national guards; but I like redundancy.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 21 hours ago

With frequent mass school shootings I would think the only defensible position would be to be for as much gun restrictions as possible, otherwise you'd have to defend a necessary condition to allowing mass shootings to continue.

Absent that condition I think people should be allowed to do what they want without fucking up everybody else.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 21 hours ago

Tell me you're from the US without telling me you're from the US.

Let's have a hypothetical scenario, imagine there was a machine that could be used to murder people easily, even if that wasn't their main purpose anyone could use it in a fit of rage to kill someone, in fact anyone could kill someone by accident with this machine. You would want this machine to be regulated, have people evaluated psychologically, and have them take classes and perform an exam to ensure they won't kill anyone by accident.

Did you think guns? I meant cars. And asking if no one or only cops should have guns is like asking if no one or only bus drivers should be able to drive. There's a midterm that most of the world has already reached, where we require people to go through some process to prove they can operate the death machine safely.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

In the 2021, the most recent year I could find easy data for, the UK had 4.7 deaths by firearms per 10,000,000 inhabitants. That's a pretty low rate (see here for more detail and comparisons with other countries). Most of the police here don't have guns. Most of the criminals here don't have guns. Most of the civilians here don't have guns.

I, also, don't have a gun and would find it pretty difficult to legally get one. That said, in the last decade, I've been clay pigeon shooting with shotguns a few times and target shooting with rifles a couple of times. I don't feel the need to tool up in my everyday life. If I want to go shooting, I can do, but I have no need or desire for a concealed carry permit for a handgun or any other firearm for self-defense purposes.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

I like this because it highlights how it's not an all-or-none question. There are plenty of countries with low firearm deaths that allow some guns but restrict others.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 20 hours ago

Yes, the question itself is too simplistic for a meaningful answer without lots of conditions and qualifications. It just invites highly polarized apples vs oranges arguments.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago (3 children)

US

My side should have guns, the other side shouldn't. I don't think it's possible to generalize a principle beyond that, because policy should be adapted to specific conditions.

Currently, the right has tons of guns and the left doesn't. Try to confiscate the right's guns and you'll probably have a civil war on your hands. So either add restrictions for new purchases, which locks in the current situation of only the right being armed, or don't, and leave open the possibility of the left getting armed. So, better to have easy access to guns.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 20 hours ago

I think that the left should absofuckinglylutely be getting strapped.

The good news is that leftists have been strapped for years. The bad news is that, 1) they're mostly using Mosin-Nagants and Makarovs because they're red fudds, and 2) most people that are politically left of center are not leftists. (I'm a leftist; I do have a Mosin-Nagant, but it was a gift, and I hate shooting it. I prefer my AR-15 and AR-10.)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Before the current political climate I would have said it should be a lot harder to get a weapon (except maybe a long gun), and we need to reduce the quantity at least three orders of magnitude (thousandth).

But the current political climate really makes it a stark choice. My visceral reaction is that with the gestapo kidnapping people off the street and sending them to remote gulags, the suspension of due process and constitutional rights, political leadership holding themselves above the law …. We really need guns. All of them. For everyone, to defend against tyrants as the gpframers f the constitution intended

Then I came to my senses. My more considered reaction is the anger, divisiveness, bigotry, and general craziness accepted out in the open, is just going to lead to untold deaths, feuds, more spite and anger, more lawlessness. We need to send Sherman through the south, confiscating all firearms

[–] [email protected] 2 points 19 hours ago

Then I came to my senses.

Except you didn't. You rationalized, and thought that someone else would save you, instead of you and the people you care about saving yourself. The floodwaters are rising, and you're on the roof; you either have to get your own ass to safety, or drown, because FEMA's been defunded, and no one is coming.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I'm trying to get as many of my lefty friends to buy guns as I can. I've offered to help them buy a gun that's good for them and to teach them how to safely handle, store, use, and just generally be around a firearm.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

Replied to wrong post, nothing to see here!

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