this post was submitted on 02 Jan 2025

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Pretty much (lemmy.world)

submitted 5 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[+] [email protected] -28 points 5 months ago (21 children)

It's funny how even catholic views are considered unacceptable now by the liberal society. This is the paradox of your tolerance: you want to accept all kinds of different people for as long as they are the same in what they believe.

I see no reason for catholic medical institutions to provide services they believe to be immoral, I don't personally, but so what of it, they should not be forced to do it.

It seems that in the US, people are taking more radical and unreasonable attitudes towards abortions(that applies to both sides). Some people may feel the need to defend abortions from anything. But I believe that tolerance should not be cast away for zealotry.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

So up until recently Catholic views were accepted by "liberal" society?

Stop it.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago (15 children)

What's next, jehovian hospitals that'll refuse ppl blood transfusions? Maybe amish hospitals that'll treat 'em with 100% organic snake oil?

I mean, you're either a medical institution, and then you do whatever is legal to help the patient, or you're a sect, and then you tell ppl how they should live their lives according to a bunch of long-dead dudes. Not both.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Okay but what happens if a pregnant person gets brought into the ER of a Catholic hospital and they need an immediate abortion or they die. The hospital doesn’t want to perform it because of religion. Should the hospital just let the patient die against the patient’s will? The patient didn’t had a choice into which hospital they were brought in. And this isn’t just a hypothetical this situation has played out in real life. Just look at Ireland.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 5 months ago (6 children)

I do believe that in the case of emergencies, if the threat of death is certain, catholic hospitals should always save the mother and I suspect many catholics would agree, but I would still say that they should not have to perform abortions and prescribe contraceptive treatment generally.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

they should not have to perform abortions and prescribe contraceptive treatment generally

Abortions are medical procedures and contraceptives are the medical professional advice to prevent unwanted children/disease. If the institution doesn't allow for fucking medicine to be practiced, it's not a hospital, it's a church.

So yeah, let's allow catholic hospitals to do whatever the hell they want with regards to religion, idgaf. But if their religion prevents them from offering medical care, they're not allowed to practice medicine and they sure as shit aren't allowed to call themselves a hospital.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

Their religious morals do not allow them to perform abortions. However, there are medical procedures banned in secular hospitals for moral reasons that are not exclusively religious, like euthanasia. Does that mean that countries that do not allow euthanasia do not have hospitals, but churches?

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I see no reason for catholic medical institutions to provide services they believe to be immoral

If they let their backwards sexist standards for what is "immoral" get in the way of medical services, they shouldn't fraudulently call their facility a hospital.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Opposition to abortion is not necessarily motivated by sexism. There is no reason why a hospital has to have principles that are in accord with yours to call itself a hospital. In fact, for most of history, hospitals and medical practitioners did not share your beliefs.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

'Even catholic'. Fuck me i lolled

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

what do you mean by "even" catholic views?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 5 months ago

There are a lot of catholics in the world, and a lot of them are in the west. In the USA they might be a minority, but it is still weird how hostile people are to this rather popular church that has always been very influential culturally in the west.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Because catholics are known for their tolerance.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

Compared to most the protestant sects today they are pretty tolerant.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Religion and healthcare do not mix. Very simple.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Judging by the amount of catholic hospitals in the world, it would appear like they do.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I too can write 'roses' on a sign and put it in my back yard next to the pile of manure.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Very mature. I am not quite sure what you think they do at catholic hospitals, but there are a lot of medical operations other than abortion.

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 5 months ago

I don't want religious institutions near healthcare. Imposing attitudes of abstinence only moral puritanism on others. Thats not medicine. Like the WHO said 7 almost 8 years ago drug use needs to be globally decriminalized to remove attitudes of discrimination from health care settings. And at the time then nobody foresaw roe v wade being knocked back and turning the clock of social progress back 5/6 decades+ i wish j could say things cant get any worde but they can and they will. So we don’t need the people making things worse involved in the administration of medical care. We already have too many religious bigots with hoarded wealth whispering in the ear of the dumbest moron on the planet who has control of the nuclear football. And healthcare is already bastardized by the incentives of shareholder profits and the vultures of the for profit insurance industry whos sole purpose is tk deny people adequate health care to boost profits whenever possible so lets not shove religion down the throats of people who are often denied basic dignities.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

your loss is our sauce

[–] [email protected] 42 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Religious hospitals? What will they think of next!

At least in countries that charge patients money for their healthcare, these religious hospitals are free, right? Given how much money Christianity makes in donations, and given that their whole religion is all about helping others for nothing in return and without judgement, it would make sense they'd run free hospitals providing healthcare for all, no matter their situation ♥️

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[+] [email protected] -9 points 5 months ago (5 children)

I honestly disagree.

If i'm a programmer working at a company, and that company asks me to write code that would enable autonomous rockets for warfare (like armed drones), i might refuse because i have ethical concerns about it. But i'm still a programmer.

From the view of catholic hospital staff, providing abortions might be murder, and they have ethical concerns about it. They are still a hospital.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago

In both your programmer case and the case of the catholic hospital staff member you have a very clear option, you can not work at that facility. Don't want to write code for military weapons, cool then work somewhere that doesn't do that. Don't want to provide abortions at your work, cool then work in a medical facility that doesn't provide them. Many facilities don't perform abortions just because they aren't intended to, such as clinics etc so you should work there.

Your programmer case also doesn't make sense because extending the metophor you want companies to be allowed to not develop software that is used by the military...they can already do that.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Does refusing to program a drone prevent a cancer patient from receiving treatment? Do these drones prevent organ rupture in ectopic pregnancies? When asked to program armed drones, are you also sitting face-to-face with a person who is suffering or dying because you aren’t actively programming them?

The denial of healthcare involves victims. Nobody’s hurt when you refuse to do a drone-programming job, but witholding a medically-necessary abortion directly results in avoidable human suffering. That’s the key difference that makes these situations incomparable.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Ok but your thing is an actual problem and their thing is a made up non-problem which it is their job and (ironically) sacred hippocratic duty to perform.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 5 months ago

The real irony is that, while Hippocrates was not a Christian, the hippocratic oath forbids doctors to perform abortion.

Today, doctors take an amended oath in most countries with a few changes but the original Hippocratic oath tries to instill a reverence for life in the practitioners of medicine.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 5 months ago

Nah, for the catholic hospital staff they probably shouldn’t have a job if it goes against their personal ethics.

But organizations do not have religion.

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[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago (4 children)

Not a meme.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Look, I'm with you, and I used to be one of the people making this same comment, but you have to give it up. This is what Gen Z or whoever has decided counts. We don't win.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 5 months ago

Most of "GenZ or whoever" has just decided to leave Lemmy. The user count here is steadily dropping.

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