this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2024
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No Stupid Questions

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(page 2) 27 comments
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[–] [email protected] 46 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Let’s say I’m an American male. I like football. I like the NY Jets, because I also like to suffer.

I don’t have to read the news, or go to news websites, or listen to news radio, to hear about my Jets. I don’t have to risk accidentally learning about what’s going on in the world watching the 6 o’clock news every evening when all I really want to know is the latest saddening Jets news.

I can listen to podcasts that tell me about jets players health, fantasy picks, gossip, the latest games, and betting strategy. In the offseason my podcasts don’t go off air. I can go to websites where algorithms that have already identified me as a Jets fan bury any news about politics or social issues under a mountain of roster updates and advertisements for beer (because Jets fans need it).

Then it comes time to vote. These democrats all seem to talk about stuff I don’t care about or understand. This Trump guy says he will do stuff. I hate the way things are, but I don’t know why they are that way. Corporate monopolies? Antitrust? Voter suppression? All that shit got buried under Aaron Roger’s passing stats. And Trump wasn’t all that bad when he was president. Certainly better than I feel now, and while I’ll pore over individual player stats to take matchups into account when I set my fantasy football roster I’m not gonna go pore over statistics on the economy or anything. That shit is complicated and boring, and football stats are definitely not. So I never have to risk remembering that Trump was pretty fucking bad.

On Election Day I vote for the guy who says he’ll do stuff, and it’s easy to do it, and it’ll be fast, and I’ll like the outcome. I won’t vote for the party that gave up 30 years ago and whose message is basically “come on guys we’re trying really hard but this governing thing is impossible!”

That’s how, basically. That and bigots.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 13 hours ago

One's "own best interest" can take a lot of different forms. Especially when the number and variety of plausible candidates are finite. Your preferred candidate for a given office will rarely line up perfectly with your own values. There's a compromise there.

If I vote for my own finances, it may come at the cost of my morals. It I vote for my own moral interest, it may cost me more. If I vote for my own power, it may cost someone else their freedoms. How heavily do I weight my own interests against those of a wider society? Political identities and philosophies are complicated, and can't necessarily be reduced to a single binary choice that is "best" in every scenario.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 13 hours ago

Put simply: They’re being lied to. Consistently and perniciously.

The lie is that their vote is going to benefit them somehow. Or that it’s going to hurt someone else exclusively. And, sometimes, it’s both—that it’ll hurt someone else, while bringing a benefit.

In all three cases, the real truth—that they themselves will still suffer—is neatly hidden away.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 13 hours ago

Propaganda. Lack of education. There's a reason they want to defund public schools. They're not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. :)

[–] [email protected] 5 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

There's a substantial assumption that the wealthy know best how to manage wealth and the economy but it's all predicated on the notion that those wealthy people are willing to act in the interest of everyone, when in fact they tend to act on their own personal interest (I mean, if someone has a net worth of over a billion dollars and they're trying to accumulate even more money, that should give you a good idea how their policy will affect people who are making 40k/yr). They tend not to want to create jobs or increase wages more than they want to improve quality of earnings, because they stand to lose a lot and they somehow want more

[–] [email protected] 7 points 13 hours ago

The rich have billions to spend on focus groups so they know exactly which buttons to push so that people vote the way they want.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

Probably unpopular answer, but it's not some clear cut "this political party has better policies for everyone". Republican policies usually are better for people living in rural areas, and Democratic policies are usually better for people in cities. I'm sure people will debate this, but this is the reason why people typically vote depending on where they live. At the very least, they believe that their party has better policies for them and their way of life.

My personal (anecdotal evidence) is that I work for a small business in a rural area, and our main customers are other small business owners (usually self employed or under 5 employees). Over the last 3 presidents, the Obama years were rough for our company, we had explosive growth during the Trump years, and then we've had stagnant growth over the past 4 years. Our largest competitor went out of business this past year, which sent us a lot of new customers, but we've also had a lot of our customers go out of business as well, so we've been pretty stagnant. Being stagnant isn't terrible, we don't have shareholders or anything, but the cost of living has increased and company profit/wages haven't which is a problem. That said I know we're doing pretty well compared to a lot of people here.

Another (once again anecdotal) example is that I have a friend who paints murals full time, for the past 30ish years. He told me that he does well with either Republicans or Democrats in office, but that his customers change. During republican presidents, his customer base is usually local businesses wanting to decorate their stores. During democratic presidents, his customer base is usually towns, state buildings, schools, etc.

But anyways, I'd be very interested to hear from some people living in cities if there's a visible uptick in income/etc when we have a democratic president, or in general what your personal observations are on how which president affects your local businesses/income/prices/etc.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (6 children)

Obama took office during the Great Recession and rebuilt the economy. Biden took office during COVID and rebuilt the economy. (I know you're going to try to argue with me on that, so I will just say that we recovered faster than any other developed nation before you do.) You're kinda dense if you think that as soon as a president from another party enters office it would affect the economy so much as these events did...

[–] [email protected] 1 points 13 hours ago

I started working this job after Obama had already been in office one term, so I was mainly comparing the final 4 years. I'm really glad I was still in college for the first term when the economy was really rough.

Covid did have an undeniable effect on the economy at the start of Biden's term, and I don't consider that his fault or anything. It does feel like we generally haven't really recovered from it though, gas prices finally came back down but everything else is crazy expensive still. For example, I do electrical work, and a 250' roll of 12/2 wire went from $35 in 2019 to $140 today.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

Because they want to see other people suffer

[–] [email protected] 6 points 14 hours ago

Fundamental flaw of the democracy: It assumes that people know what's the best for them

[–] [email protected] 28 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

Generally people tend to focus on one thing and don't pay any attention to the side effects. Morons want lower taxes for themselves and don't pay attention to the fact that the wealthy get the most benefit out of conservative cuts or that they just defunded the benefits of having a government like enforced food safety regulations. Or they care about abortion because they buy lies about post birth abortions and ignore everything else. Or they just teally hate immigrants and want to be mad and don't care that the party of hate works against their other self interests.

Many people are stupid. Like really, really stupid.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

In the US at least, the systematic demolishing of the education system has led to a vast reduction in overall education and critical thinking skills. This was done on purpose. That, combined with the unexpected boon of the Internet, has led to massive wealth shifting from the many to the few.

You see the results of this change everywhere, especially on the Internet. Lack of basic spelling and grammar skills are just one symptom. All of that is to say that humans are primates and easily trained.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 14 hours ago
[–] [email protected] 13 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

Informed consent: People are not against exploitation. They just want to switch sides. Why would you vote for something that cripples you once you got rich?

Uninformed consent: They honestly believe they are voting for their own interests.

Indifferent consent: Usually single issue or ideology-driven voter.

¯⁠\⁠_⁠༼⁠ ⁠•́⁠ ͜⁠ʖ⁠ ⁠•̀⁠ ⁠༽⁠_⁠/⁠¯

[–] [email protected] 187 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

Because the rich control an overwhelming amount of the media we consume. They are capable of shaping the narrative to their benefit.

[–] [email protected] 117 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

They also successfully killed public education, so literally the citizens are too stupid to understand they're being conned.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 13 hours ago (4 children)

I must've fallen through the cracks, because I went through the American education system and I'm not completely stupid.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 13 hours ago

.......well......

[–] [email protected] 9 points 13 hours ago

"There's no educating a smart boy."

— Terry Pratchett, Thief of Time (Discworld, #26)

GNU Sir Terry

[–] [email protected] 16 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (3 children)

It's more that the system itself just leaves more and more children behind, as passing kids who aren't actually making the grade has become the norm because parents are abusive and more apt to harass/harangue and schools are pressured with funding to make sure enough kids are graduating. Teachers themselves are left with few options and there's still bright kids, they're just waaaaay in the minority compared to the apparently teeming masses of absolute fuckwits.

Also, I'm in my 40's and when I think of the quality and intelligence of the people I graduated with? Well, maybe it hasn't gotten that much worse, actually. Because I remember thinking everyone around me was a fucking idiot, tempering that thought as I got older, but now I've come back full fucking circle to these people are fucking idiots, raising other idiots.

If kids are dumb today, millennials are on the hook for it, boomers didn't do this one.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 13 hours ago

Hey, not ALL millennials are on the hook for this one!

For instance, I never found anyone to love me, and have kids with. So THERE! You can't blame ME for idiots today!

.....but also yes. Kids in the 90s, that I went to school with were fucking idiots. Including me.

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[–] [email protected] 49 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

This is the most important part.

And also they push religion hard which is inherently a system of control for the uneducated and exploited.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (5 children)

Not just control, but Christianity specifically (as well as a few others) is really good because it promises a paradise after you die.

You can get idiot plebes to spend their whole lives dreaming about it all being better after they die, because they were pious and accepted abuse during life.

So, control through fear and hope.

EDIT: Also Christianity is inherently misogynistic and that's very appealing to disaffected young men who hate that women won't fuck them. Angry young men with no direction or group to belong to are one of the most dangerous and destabilizing groups a country can have.

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 14 hours ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 66 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Because powerful people turned politics from a policy / representation in to politics as an identity. People will almost anything for their two minutes of hate.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 14 hours ago (3 children)

religion is a big part of it. how many millions of people only vote for the candidate who promises to criminalize abortion without knowing (or caring about) a single other goddamn thing about the person

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