this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2024
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im 100% canadian, I dont live in the US and wondering about your system.

so as i understand your political system, a president can only hold office 2 terms. in Trumps case, he served once already, does that mean he can only serve one more, or is the clock reset and he gets a shot at 8 years?

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Two terms, regardless if consecutive or not.

Technically the limit is on if a person can be elected to the office. It might be possible for a person that have been elected president 2 times to the run for vice president and have a loyalist run as president, then have the loyalist resign after getting sworn in and making the VP president. But a person that isnt eligible for president should not be eligible for vice president either. But we dont know if this means a person who isnt eligible to be elected president can become vice president, since the person can still serve as president, just not elected to it. We don't know since this has never been court tested.

Also if a person serve less than 2 years, they can still run for 2 terms. So even without the "president resign and VP becomes president" shenanigan, a person can technically serve for 10 years minus 1 day.

Also, the speaker of the house does not have to be a member of the house. So technically a person who has been elected 2 terms can be chosen as speaker of the house, then have the president and vice president resign and the person now become acting president for the rest of the term. I'm pretty sure this maneuver doesnt need to go through courts since you can become speaker of the house even if you are inelligible to become president or vice president, so it wouldn't prevent the person from being speaker, and the text on the 22nd amendment only prevents a person form being elected more than twice, no mention of any limit on if a person can serve or act as president.

Anyways, thanks for coming to my ted talk on political shenanigans.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The clock is not reset like Russia.

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[–] [email protected] 62 points 5 months ago (6 children)

Legally he can't. But legally that fucker should have been in jail long ago, so who knows.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Right, there's also a constitutional amendment saying insurrectionists can't stand for office

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Too bad people who wrote that didn't specify what it meant.

Like does it mean:

A. If popular opinion deems a person commited an act of insurrection, they are inelligible.

B. Congress passed a resolution that deems a person have committed an act of insurrection

C. The Supreme Court has ruled that a person have committed insurrection

D. The person gets charged with committing an act of insurrection.

E. The person gets convicted with committing an act of insurrection.

Because

A is just dumb,

B would allow a republican controlled congress declare a democratic candidate inelligible. Basically its just partisan shenanigans.

C also allows partisan shenanigans

D is presuming someone guilty, bad idea.

E trump has only been convicted of state charges of fraud, not anything involving insurrection.

So yea they should've worded it better on what it means.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I really wish Biden had gone after him 10% as hard as he went after Sanders.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Biden is the chief executive I don't know why the courts had any say in executing a law that is already on the books. A strong president would have done his job executing the law and making the SC enforce their over reaching decision themselves.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (6 children)

Does it even matter? trump can get convicted of insurrection but the supreme court can just decide that he hasnt committed an act of insurrection based on their interpretation.

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[–] [email protected] 73 points 5 months ago (3 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Section 1. No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this Article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.

"No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice," doesn't say consecutively. It would take a HUUUUGE leap of logic to insert that word where it doesn't exist. I'm sure someone will make the argument, but by the letter and the intent of the law, Trump is done after this term.

"and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once." If Trump has a heart attack and dies before January 20, 2027, Vance would take over and serve 2+ years as President, meaning he could only be elected once for one four-year term.

The rest of Section 1 just means anyone who was in office at the time is grandfathered into the old rules (no limits).

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago

The logic train has left the station in the US judicial system.

[–] [email protected] 50 points 5 months ago (1 children)

It would take a HUUUUGE leap of logic

US Fifth Circuit of Appeals and Supreme Courts: "Hold My Beer"

For example, if Trump's Republican Congress gets rid of elections, then this Amendment doesn't matter.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago

They probably won't get rid of elections... they'll just have sham elections like Russia has to give the impression of "legitimacy" but I guarantee they'll be heavily rigged in their favor.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

The two term limit was set by the 22nd amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The language in it is that no person may be elected to the office of President for more than two terms. It does not specify any criteria about consecutive terms, meaning it doesn't matter. They simply can't be elected more than twice to the office President under any conditions. It also specifies that if they served more than two years as President when they weren't elected to that office (such as when a VP assumes the office after the President dies), they can't be elected to the office of President more than once. In other words, a 2+ year term of a president after succeeding the previous president whose term ends early, counts as a full term in regard to this 2 term limit.

In other words, this SHOULD be his last term. There are two legal loopholes, however. 1) If he somehow managed to coerce a skip or elimination of the next election, he could assume another term without defying the constitution. There is currently no mechanism to do that, but an act of a partisan Congress upheld by the partisan Supreme Court could make such a thing possible. 2) if he ran as VP for another person, which is constitutionally allowed, he could be elected as VP and then the elected President could resign, die, or be removed from office and Trump would be President again. Also, a new amendment to the constitution could be passed to negate or modify the 22nd amendments' term limit. Though that would require a lot of Democrats also voting for it.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)
  1. if he ran as VP for another person, which is constitutionally allowed, he could be elected as VP

This is an interesting, but untested, legal theory. When Al Gore ran in 2000, there were murmurings of whether he should try to get Bill Clinton on the ticket as VP. Ultimately, there was some consensus that this part of 12th Amendment wasn't superseded by any others: "But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States."

It's a bit of an open question whether that means only those parts of the eligibility requirements in place at the time (35 years old, natural born citizen, etc), or whether new requirements are also included, such as already serving two full terms as President. Clinton/Gore didn't want to push those boundaries, but Trump certainly could try.

Edit: The 2012 book Constitutional Cliffhangers has a whole chapter dedicated to this and similar scenarios. It became a must-read in Trump's first term, and is even more of one now.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

He could run again as a placeholders VP, then have the placeholder resign after taking office. This would bypass the can only be "elected" twice rule.

Yes, there is an amendment that requires a VP to meet the same eligibility requirements as the president that should prevent this, but a corrupt court could rule that since that amendment does not explicitly mention term limits, those do not apply...

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 5 months ago (1 children)

US Presidents are limited to two terms, it doesn’t matter if they are consecutive. Grover Cleveland is the only other president who has served two non-consecutive terms.

Term-limits are a relatively recent addition though, the 22nd Amendment to the Constitution was only ratified in 1951 after Franklin Roosevelt served four terms.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 5 months ago (2 children)

And just an addendum for non-Americans who also aren’t likely/don’t have time to click the links, FDR (Franklin Delano Roosevelt) was elected to 4 terms but died 82 days into his 4th term. He was succeeded by the vice president, Harry S. Truman.

Prior to FDR all presidents had voluntarily limited themselves to 2 terms following the precedent of the first president, George Washington. FDR’s running for a 3rd term was controversial at the time; in 1940 the U.S. had not yet joined the Second World War and intervening was still controversial, although opposition dwindled with the fall of France. Interestingly, FDR seeking a 4th term was much less controversial with the U.S. in the thick of the war in 1944. The constitution was amended a few years later to make sure it didn’t happen again, though.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago

I think it's technically written as 10 years. If a vice president replaced the president, he could serve 2 more terms as long as he only replaced the president for 2 years. If he served out more than 2 years, he could only be president for 1 additional term.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago

Legally, yes. (But of course, the Supreme Court has turned interpreting the Constitution into a game of Calvinball.)

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago (1 children)

It's two terms period. They do not have to be consecutive. There are ways for a President to serve more than 8 years but it's very specific and not really applicable in Trumps case. Unless they decide to toss out the constitution, which honestly seems kinda likely, then it's two terms.

But he's also a 80 year old man who eats McDonalds and coca cola while painting himself with orange, probably lead based, paint. I don't expect him to survive the next 4 years to be able to run again.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

"Walk for president"

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

Assuming he doesn't change the rules and appoint himself president forever, then the limit is 2 terms, consecutive or not.

Even if a person started their presidential mandate partway through a 4 year cycle (as happened after Nixon stepped down and after Kennedy was shot), it's still 2 terms, not necessarily 8 years.

If Trump dies in the next 4 years, Vance could serve out the current term and would only be eligible to become president for one additional term.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago

Assuming he abides by constitutional law, this will be his final term.

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