this post was submitted on 08 Oct 2024
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[–] WatDabney@fedia.io 35 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Actually, that's been the case for just about exactly 16 years. I watched it happen in real time.

I went through a libertarian phase in the 80s and 90s, mostly because I couldn't reconcile my anarchist sensibilities with the fact that humanity just isn't ready to do entirely without authority. I eventually just gave in and shifted to anarchism, since it's really the only position that's consistent with my principles, and I just treat it as more of an ideal toward which to strive than an actual immediate goal.

In any event, I knew the libertarian movement of the era. It was more right- than left-wing even then, but it was primarily libertarian, exactly as the term implies - primarily focused just on minimizing political authority.

Then came the Tea Party.

The first Tea Party protests were organized by actual libertarians and were specifically against the Wall Street bailouts in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis that Wall Street had essentially single-handedly caused. And notably, they were against the Bush administration.

But then, shortly after Obama's victory, with a suspiciously well-timed and widespread boost fron the legacy media reporting on an even more suspiciously well-timed on-air comment by Jim Cramer, the Tea Party was recast into a Republican protest against the left. And it almost immediately transformed from a series of protests against the Wall Street bailouts to a traveling right-wing carnival of hate. (And conveniently enough, the focus on the Wall Street bailouts completely vanished).

While I saw that happen I didn't recognize the near-immediate Overton Window shift it triggered until I noticed a sudden influx of libertarians on anarchist forums. And they all had the same story - they had abandoned their libertarian forums because they had been taken over by angry, stupid Republicans.

And that became the status quo. The former libertarians mostly settled into their own sub-community of "anarcho-capitalists" and the libertarian movement is now pretty much just angry, stupid Republicans who are only marked out by the fact that they lean more into corporatocracy and militarism than religious fundamentalism and social war.

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[–] FilthyShrooms@lemmy.world 7 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Ok but what's the "quiet part" he's referring to?

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[–] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 192 points 7 months ago (4 children)
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[–] LEDZeppelin@lemmy.world 9 points 7 months ago

Libertarians have abandoned the principles of liberty since as long as I’m alive

[–] Cruxifux@feddit.nl 15 points 7 months ago

Realizing that libertarians were just conservatives lampung as anti establishment was a sad realization.

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 76 points 7 months ago (6 children)

Libertarian? Isn't that just Conservative with extra steps?

[–] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 20 points 7 months ago

Libertarians, at least in the US, are all about being selfish. "why should I pay taxes to fund schools, I don't have kids" types. It's all "me, me, me."

Insufferable wankers.

Republicans are like that too but they also enjoy telling everyone else what they should be doing. They want to control other people's access to healthcare, punish them for being the "wrong" faith, sexuality, race, etc.

[–] pennomi@lemmy.world 79 points 7 months ago (13 children)

No, in theory libertarians are pro-choice, pro-LGBT, pro-drugs, pro-open borders.

Not saying that American Libertarians believe those things, but libertarianism specifically supports things that are non-conservative social issues.

[–] jballs@sh.itjust.works 6 points 7 months ago

It's weird huh? You don't really see any Libertarians protesting police violence. Or very many up in arms when the Supreme Court said that the President is above the law. I also don't recall seeing any headlines about massive Libertarian protests when conservatives threw out decades of established law that a woman had the right to make decisions about her own body. And come to think of it, when Trump said he was going to revoke legal immigration statuses and do mass deportations, the Libertarians were pretty quiet about that too.

It's almost like Libertarians actually like a government that treads all over them, and the Don't Step on Snek flag is only about guns.

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 24 points 7 months ago (3 children)
[–] pennomi@lemmy.world 37 points 7 months ago (9 children)

Outside of the US, yes, there are real libertarians.

American Libertarian policies from that article:

Its cultural policy positions include ending the prohibition of illegal drugs, advocating criminal justice reform,[14] supporting same-sex marriage, ending capital punishment, and supporting gun ownership rights.

Conservatives have over the last couple years taken to labeling themselves as Libertarian to avoid the stigma of being Republican, but have never actually voted for a libertarian.

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[–] GuyDudeman@lemmy.world 64 points 7 months ago

That’s been happening for decades. Libertarians have only ever existed because the Republicans used to be tacitly against racism.

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