its because if it was just none christians would count it as people who are just undecided and haven't accepted jesus.
this post was submitted on 01 Oct 2024
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Atheism is not a religion or worldview.
Atheism is the lack of a belief in a god or God's.
Many atheists including myself adhere to the statement of simply being unconvinced that there is a God or having no credible evidence to indicate a God's existence.
Maybe the form we were filling out legitimately needed that information but typically outside of a very specific set of data. I don't see why any form would ever ask you what your religion or lack of religion might be.
Atheism is, in point if fact, a world view.
There is a world. You have a perspective on that world. The assumptions you make and the things you believe, rational and irrational, are a world view. The concept that there is (or is not) credible evidence that gods, or planets, or whatever fundamental facets of existence, imaginary or otherwise, are either a world view themselves or are deeply rooted in your world view.
Q: does your world include unicorns? A: i don't know.
The answer stems from having a world view that does not categorically include nor exclude unicorns. But more to the point, when answering questions like:
Q: what is most likely the source of existence? A:
The answer, if actually responding to the question, is a world view, or deeply tied to a world view.
As to forms: forms are often limiting and don't include information we consider relevant, or do include information we consider irrelevant. So it goes. In any case, they would ask that information precisely because world views provide broad but effective indicators about an individual. Knowing that a large incoming group of hotel guests is Christian, for example, can be a useful metric, because you'll know that your hotel will make above-average pay-to-watch porn sales that weekend.
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It depends how you define "religion"
Atheism is a belief. You have a belief that there is no supernatural being or power. A lack of belief in anything is agnosticism, not atheism.
If you define religion as a belief (I would) then there you go. If it's a set of practices and dogmas, then technically Christianity isn't a religion and it's denominations are as they practice things differently and some have added dogmas or different interpretations, even though they believe in the same God and have the same fundamentals.
Then I'd have to assume your religion is also not-believing-in-unicorns and round-earthism, as well as humans-need-oxygenism.
Agnosticism is not a lack of belief, it is a stance that one doesn't know whether a god exists or not. Frequently, the "belief" would be that it's impossible to know, which, by your definition, would also make it a religion.
The argument does not hold up.
You're correct by your first paragraph, though.
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Since 'atheism' means 'without religion' it's the same as putting in "none."
imho
Depends if you define religion as 'act of worship', or 'belief aystem', I guess. Bhuddism would fail the first, but not the second.
I usually think of religion as the belief in some sort of God or religious figure whether it's the Christian God or Vishnu or Odin or whatever it seems that it's more complicated than I had considered previously.
Yes, that's fair - depends on how the definition of the survey is worded. So something like satanism wouldn't be a religion to you? I get it confused with the church of Satan, but one or the other isn't about the worship of Satan. My grasp of Buddhism is it's about a belief system, one that believes following his example that leads to a better life/ inner peace, rather than straight worship, or asking him to use divine providence to make ones life better.
There are different categories. I consider myself agnostic atheist. That pretty much means I don't really know, but all this man made stuff is horse shit.
Atheism is a choice; where I choose evidence and logic.
To me it is basically:
I don't believe in your imaginary friend; but don't feel special, I don't believe in anyone else's imaginary friend either.
I once told somebody that if you want to believe in a magic man in the sky, then go for it, but don't expect me to.
Atheism is a religion the same way bald is a hair color.
It's all a bit vague, but one could say "Atheist is a religion and Agnostic is none, because Atheists believe there is no god or afterlife" but often Agnostic is considered a type of Atheist.
People get very caught up in the definition of atheist and agnostic. It can mean very different things to different people.
Technically atheist is "without belief", and agnostic is "without knowledge".
FWIW, you can have belief in the afterlife without a belief in some type of deity. For example, some forms of shammanism don't recognize any form of deity, and instead focus on the spirits of ancestors or of the natural world, but not as a divine thing.
Philosophically, that's true. But I understand putting it in the religion column for the purpose of statistics. And 'none' and 'atheist' are two different possible answers. You can have no religion but believe very fervently in a god of your own conception.
I like the idea of putting “none.” I’m gonna start doing that instead of atheist.
That sounds more like "Other" than "None".
Why? If you worship a god but don't subscribe to any dogma, accept any scripture or listen to any religious authority, you have no religion. You're just a theist.
I suspect Satanists and others on the left hand path would disagree but I agree you're functionally correct
I would suggest that various flavors of Satanism have a dogma, and more than one version has scriptures, be they LaVey's book or the Satanic Temple's tenets.
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Why? If you worship a god but don’t subscribe to any dogma, accept any scripture or listen to any religious authority, you have no religion. You’re just a theist.
Except atheism is literally a lack of belief in a god or deity. If you believe in some type of deity, you're not an atheist. by default.
That was my point.
I guess it depends on your definition of religion. To me, it sounds like a personal religion, even if just one person believes in it. There are any number of religions too small to be included in their list, probably, so they should have an "Other" option, and that seems like the best fit for someone who has a personal set of religious beliefs that do not align with a listed religion.
Or you could just keep it how it's always been for the purposes of easy tabulation.
Wouldn't that be an agnostic?
No. Agnostic is not going either way. Atheism is a faith, because you deny the existence of a god without proof, just as theists claim its existence without proof.
Source: I’m an agnostic
I strongly disagree. Atheism is explicit lack of faith.
For all practical purposes, an atheist thinks that without evidence, it's safe to assume that there's no god or gods.
Would you say that you're genuinely completely agnostic in relation to every single religion that has ever existed, even the joke religions (like the flying spaghetti monster, etc)?
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No, agnosticism is more about the fact that God cannot be proven or disproven.
As for atheism being a religious choice: that’s exactly what it is, it’s a choice to not believe in any religion.
If you and I met on the street, and I were to ask you what your religion is, how would you answer me?
(My guess is you’d say you are an atheist. Same as that dropdown is asking you what your religion is.)
If you asked me what my religion is, I would answer that you have already pre-supposed that I have one. Even though I would know what you're actually asking, I would answer that way to bring more popularity to the idea that not having a religion is normal. Yeah I know, I'm fun at parties.
You can really go down a pretty deep rabbit hole here.
Strictly speaking, atheism is the lack of a belief in a god or gods. A-without, theism-belief in god(s)
There are religions out there that don't have a figure you can easily identify as a god, certain types of Buddhism for example, and so you wouldn't necessarily be wrong in calling followers of those religions "atheists"
But that's of course somewhat at odds with how we normally use the term atheism, and them prevent confusion we'd normally refer to these as "non-theistic religions" instead of "atheistic religions"
You can also get into the weeds about what even counts as a god, for example, certain types of taoism/daoism don't really have any particular god-like figures, but they do have the tao/dao (roughly translating to "path" sort of a natural order the the universe that you should try to be in sync with.) Is the dao a god? It's certainly not a personal god, something you can pray to and expect to get an answer back from, or that can/will intervene in the universe, it just sort of is and you're either on the path or you're not. You could certainly argue that it is a god, if an impersonal one, but it's definitely not what most people would think of as a god.
You can also have religions that don't really have anything they'd identify as a "god" but might have other lesser supernatural entities, things like spirits, demons, angels, ghosts, fairies, djinn, etc.
There's also UFO religions, where aliens are the primary figures and often a lot of their supernatural abilities might be explained away as just very advanced science is centuries beyond our own capabilities.
Going the other direction, you could theoretically have someone who believes that there is some sort of god out there, but makes no attempt to pray to them, worship them, doesn't take part in any sort of ritual or culture having to do with that belief, and pretty much just acknowledges that the god exists but that its existence has no particular impact on that person's life or the universe in general. You could very well call that person a non-religious theist. Many deists would fall into this sort of category.
Something I wish got a little more attention in these sorts of discussions is ignosticism/igtheism/theological noncognitivism, which is the camp I put myself into when I'm feeling really nitpicky, and I like to sum up as:
Theism: I believe that there is a god or gods
Atheism: I do not believe that there are any gods
Agnosticism: I'm not sure if there is a god, and maybe we can't ever know for sure
Ignosticism: What the fuck do you people even mean by "god." No one has come up with a clear definition yet so this argument is pointless.
Whenever I've been asked I always say no religion
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Wouldn't what be an agnostic? "None" for religion? No, as I said, you can not adhere to any religion but still have a devout belief in a god.
Humans are so complicated
True. And unfortunately, things sometimes have to be simplified for the purposes of statistics.
Honestly, I would rather something like a census have an accurate count of atheists than leave it off the form because it isn't technically correct to call it a religion.
Atheist is tangential to religion, you have religious theists or atheists as religion is about a system of philosophy and ethics while theism is about belief in gods.
Irreligious, 'none' or 'does not apply' might be better.
I appreciate the surveys that just say "doesn't apply".
Atheist is not a statement about your religion at all. I'm also an atheist and my 'religion' is basically secular humanist. Yours could be none, Unitarian Universalist, Buddhist, secular humanist, or any others that are compatible.
I don't intend this to be harsh or negative but I don't know how to phrase this nicely;
Secular Humanism is a philosophy, not a religion. Religions are faith-based while philosophies are based in some logical argumentation. The muddling of religion with philosophy linguistically serves only to tarnish philosophy and lend undue credence to religion. That language is so flexible can be beneficial but it can equally be detrimental when used like this.
- I put religion in quotes to try to appease this take.
- You are being exceedingly literal and selective in your definition of religion.
- Ceding all rights to the word 'religion' to the xtian fundamentalists is not a good strategy.
- Your extreme position limits your ability to bridge with others which also limits your ability to affect change.
- I've had my 'militant atheist' phase and shared your inflexibility in the past. It wasn't healthy for me and it wasn't helpful for anyone.
I don't think there is anything "militant atheist" in the post you replied to.
I also consider myself a secular humanist, but would never describe myself as religious.
I think that normalising not having a religion would help to bring tolerance for people who have differing opinions, while calling secular humanist a religious view may reinforce a bias in some people that "you can't be good without religion".
- Thanks.
- The differentiation I used wasn't my own words, I got it from here, I figured I shouldn't go off just my own take. I suppose I should have specified that from the beginning.
- I suppose there's a case to be made for that.
- I don't see how you've got that I have an extreme position from 'Religions are faith-based while philosophies are based in some logical argumentation.'
- Noted. I suppose I could try to find something not abhorrent about faith. I've long since stopped being angry about it but I'm still very much an Antitheist.
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Wow, I just read about secular humanism, and it seems to be pretty much exactly how I feel about things. The human race could, through science, understanding, and cooperation, solve most of the problems that we are faced with. I like that.