I used to wonder why we were in such a hurry to phase out 3G networks entirely.
Now I know.
this post was submitted on 22 Sep 2024
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One of the reasons. Another is bandwidth efficiency. You can service a lot more devices with higher speeds and less errors using newer higher modulation schemes.
I am constantly surprised how many people are unaware how bad SMS security is.
I knew about sim-swapping but not that this exists...
Yeah, I did not know it is that bad....
It's been known for years that SMS-based 2FA is terrible, terrible security. The sites that use them have no interest in their users' accounts' security: all they're interested in is harvesting their phone numbers.
I think you're going for malice a bit fast when incompetence and negligence seem like pretty likely culprits to me.
I've read this for years too, and this video demonstrates exactly why in a clear way.
the worst are apps that use it as the sole form of authentication
Glares at Discord
Discord offers proper 2FA though.
I'm more referring to servers requiring the handover of phone numbers to join. That implementation is so fucking stupid.
great way of pressuring otherwise resistant people into giving it up
Yup. Shit needs to be illegal. Is there a GDPR angle to it?
im always downvoted and screamed at for saying this but yeah.
i hate stupid forced 2fa
Agree. I appreciate that banks offer 2FA, but do I really need to be forced to give up a real phone number to access a forum, news site, etc.? No.
Whose job is security? Mine, the user, and if I decide one of my accounts is a throwaway or I just mash some keys to get access to something, I shouldn't have to sign up for 2FA to do it.
2FA is great. It's the best tool there is against impersonation and account takeovers.
But it's only great PROVIDED
- It's a real, proper second factor like a hardware token or - less great but okay - a "secure" cellphone app. When it's a totally insecure factor like SMS, 1FA is preferable.
- It's not such a PITA that you hate using it.
- When it's a proprietary app from one of the big data sonsabitches, it's also an app to spy on you and your activities.
yes i agree! apps like aegis shows its possible to do it in a reasonable way.
SMS is fine for 2FA, as long as you can't use it for anything else, like a password reset.
Once the SMS is used for account recovery, it's now 1FA with a terrible security hole.
If you have complex, single use passwords, and have SMS 2FA, then it's pretty ok. Not the best security, but at least better than a most.
Obviously offline time based passkeys are better for the 2FA, but typically the real problem is how to get into an account if you've lost one part of your login.
SMS is fine for 2FA, as long as you can't use it for anything else
Oh yeah? Post your bank customer number and your telephone number on here and see how fast your account gets drained without you even getting a single confirmation code SMS.
Is this via SIM cloning?
How would they get past the other factor, the password?
If you're gonna say "SMS can be used to reset the password" then it starts to sound like you're complaining about insecure password reset processes, not 2FA.
Password are routinely stolen, then bought and sold on hackers' marketplaces. That's how.
Yes, but that argument can be made against TOTP too.
SMS 2FA is less secure than TOTP, but still better than no second factor, since most criminals with access to a password database aren't able to take over your phone number (on a large scale).
With most services allowing some kind of password reset over SMS, I also prefer no 2FA over SMS 2FA. I already lost an account because I changed my number.
Some people really don't understand layered security.
Too many of them are programmers.