Ask Lemmy

If two parties are at odds with one another, and one on them is willing to use violence and the other isn't, the violent party wins.

Non violence works when people care about what you're going through. If the right people know and care they'll come in and do violence for you to make it stop. Or at least verifiably threaten violence. But violence is happening whether you did it or not.

Nazis don't give a shit about you, they're eager for violence. They want to exterminate entire classes of people. Non violence does not work on Nazis, we've already seen this play out once before.

I'm not a naturally violent person and thankfully haven't found myself in a position where I've needed to defend myself or others from neo-nazis. But I'm sure I would if it came to it. Neo-nazis are few and far between in my country, but if I seen one get a kicking I wouldn't be standing in to help them.

Punched a Nazi in the jaw at a party once. He left and everyone was happier once he did. Fuck that Nazi and his sore Nazi jaw.

I'm with you. Many of "them" want to get violent and are looking for a reason to do so. By throwing a punch, it provides justification for their violent actions. So many folks here indicate that you won't change somebody unless you fight them, but I've read and heard plenty of evidence to the contrary. One quick source is How One Man Convinced 200 Ku Klux Klan Members To Give Up Their Robes. I also heard an interview with a woman who grew up in a cult and how she learned how to "deprogram" people.

I like to think of it a lot like fishing. Once you get a fish on the hook, you can't just pull hard and bring 'em in. You need to set the hook and then reel them in slowly.

I don't think a lot of Lemmy users are out in the world doing much punching.

I became a leftist, because I got enough of the liberal "they go low, we go high" mantra. You never turn the other cheeck to a person, who will proceed to punch it again. In fact, if they once failed to do better in such cases, they're just want to abuse your fair game.

The anarchists cookbook is 99% misinformation, and outdated on top.

Make the world a better place

Punch a nazi in the face

I live in Germany. No punches are needed here, just call the cops and BAM off to jail with the idiot.

Im much rather punch/kick pedos and rapists but yea sure I'll punch a nazi ig(?)

Nonviolence is a lofty, and unattainable ideal. Unless you can create something that prevents violence in an absolute, physical sense or can successfully breed out the sadistic elements of humanity it will forever be subject to the whims of charismatic violent people. World history, at least from the perspective of governing authority, is nothing but physical and psychological violence.

The Buddhists would tell you that life is duhkah (suffering). Trying to force any order onto only increases suffering. The french existentialists would tell them that the only thing you can do about it is to laugh in the face of the absurdity of existence. Then they'd go to a bar and the buddhists would watch the existentialists drink themselves to oblivion respectfully and with a detached interest.

Anarchism, nonviolence, and philosophy in general, rarely align with your subjective lived experience. The best way to deal with Nazis is not to punch them, but to live your life the best you can and try to have as much fun with other humans as is possible. If you engage with them on their terms, those of violence and hate, they've already won. Hug a nazi, especially if you're part of a demographic they hate. Treat them like you would a slow child. Education, empathy, and kindness beat the nazi next door. Unfortunately though once they establish their fourth Reich like it seems they are close to, you have to wield collective hard power (tanks, predator drones, and boots on the ground).

You, the human reading this, will accomplish nothing by punching a nazi, hug them or ignore them until it's time to fight them collectively.

Non-violence is a nice ideal, but just that. There's only so much protests can do, if nazi germany had been met with non-violence, imagine what would have happened. Conversely, imagine how many lives would have been saved if Hitler had been stopped before becoming it's leader. It's the same thing with US politics, Trump is basically a neo nazi. This is undeniable if you read project 2025. The US is drifting further and further right, and that means closer and closer to becoming a new nazi germany. And besides all that, if someone is advocating for killing me, then I'm going to want them gone.

Spent enough time in the punk scene to know some people are very serious about it.

I am serious enough that I have punched nazis before and look forward to a time when I can punch nazis again.

Violence is necessary for a functioning society to address those that reject the social contract that are not amenable to rationale.

Some people are more dangerous alive than the disruption their death would have caused.

I appreciate and understand that you are a strict pacifist, and that you feel it is a worthwhile life to follow, and I agree with you.

The problem is, in order for most of the populace to be pacifists, there still needs to be agents of violence to remove the disruptors who wish to co-opt or destroy our society that are not amenable to words.

Your ideology cannot exist in the real word as it will be consumed by other ideologies that do not eschew violence.

I think it varies a lot by the user. I think (hope) most people are just joking, but I'm sure we have a number of people who aren't joking.

But also keep in mind we absolutely have propaganda bots and trolls here. They're quite good at directing the hivemind, even without the assistance of complete loons.

Personally I believe violence should only be used in defense of self or innocent people around you from imminent threats, never otherwise. Use words to fight words, use ideas to fight ideas, use fists to fight fists, guns to fight guns or knives. Straight pacifism to the degree of foregoing defense seems naive to me, but so does using violence for anything but defense from violence.

Our fear has made us gullible A bully rose to take control And now they’re yelling “off with their heads!” We’ve been through this, we ended it Or so we thought it had been fought It’s like an army back from the dead...

This is the way I've come to look at it: non-violence is ideal, but non-violence is one of many "languages." (Obviously here we're just talking about violence, but yknow some is political, some is social, etc.) Some people can speak many of these, some people only speak one or refuse to use others (like how you say you will only use nonviolence.)

The issue is that some people only speak one language, and aren't going to "understand" (be persuaded or moved by) others no matter what. A bigot only understands hate and emotion so they aren't going to be swayed from that position by logic or facts because they don't "speak" that language.

What I'm getting at, is that for people who only speak violence - non-violence doesn't mean anything to them except an easy target. They aren't going to consider your viewpoint because you won't fight back, they won't back down because "clearly you aren't a threat." They're going to violence until they reach their ends. With somebody like that, you have to "speak their language."

Of course on an individual level you (maybe) can get the police to handle it, but on a social level like dealing with nazis you have to keep them scared of return violence. They are violent by nature (the entire ideology is elimination of undesirables) and should be treated as such. Let them know that we punch nazis. Let them know they aren't the only ones with guns and unlike most of them we go to the range. Let them know if they wear iron crosses and shit they're getting kicked the fuck out. Fuck them, and let them know we'd be happy to fuck em up if they want to give us the opportunity.

I'm generally anti-violence myself, but I'm also a large guy so I'm lucky enough to be able to avoid it. I can't bring myself to be a pacifist though. Knocking some kid around is easy come take a swing at me and see how it goes. Shrug

Tolerance ends with intolerance. Being nice and civil leads to things like the storming of the US Capital. If US Republicans, for example, felt no resistance then they would organize a crusade into Springfield Ohio.

It is because we live in a world of controversy and civil unrest that racists cannot simply commit massacres and lynchings like in the old days.

We have to show fangs, not bellies, to aggressive animals.