Technology

You can't get rid of bots, nor spammers. The only thing is that you can have a more aggressive automated punishment system, which will unevitably also punish good users, along with the bad users.

Some sort of "report as bot" --> required captcha pipeline would be useful

You don't.

You employ critical thinking skills in all interactions on the web.

No current social network can be bot-proof. And Lemmy is in the most unprotected situation here, saved only by his low fame. On Twitter, I personally have already banned about 15000 Russian bots, but that's less than 1% of the existing ones. I've seen the heads of bots with 165000 followers. Just imagine that all 165000 will register accounts on Lemmy, there is nothing to oppose them. I used to develop a theory for a new social network, where bots could exist as much as he want, but could not influence your circle of subscriptions and subscribers. But it's complicated...

I've been thinking postcard based account validation for online services might be a strategy to fight bots.

As in, rather than an email address, you register with a physical address and get mailed a post card.

A server operator would then have to approve mailing 1,000 post cards to whatever address the bot operator was working out of. The cost of starting and maintaining a bot farm skyrockets as a result (you not only have to pay to get the postcard, you have to maintain a physical presence somewhere ... and potentially a lot of them if you get banned/caught with any frequency).

Similarly, most operators would presumably only mail to folks within their nation's mail system. So if Russia wanted to create a bunch of US accounts on "mainstream" US hosted services, they'd have to physically put agents inside of the United States that are receiving these postcards ... and now the FBI can treat this like any other organized domestic crime syndicate.

Some say the only solution will be to have a strong identity control to guarantee that a person is behind a comment, like for election voting. But it raises a lot of concerns with privacy and freedom of expression.

I love dailydot. They summarize tiktoks about doordash and then provide the same video at the bottom of the page. I can feel my mind rot while consuming it but I still do it.

Perhaps the only way to get rid of them for sure is to require a CAPTCHA before all posts. That has its own issues though.

1. The platform needs an incentive to get rid of bots.

Bots on Reddit pump out an advertiser friendly firehose of "content" that they can pretend is real to their investors, while keeping people scrolling longer. On Fediverse platforms there isn't a need for profit or growth. Low quality spam just becomes added server load we need to pay for.

I've mentioned it before, but we ban bots very fast here. People report them fast and we remove them fast. Searching the same scam link on Reddit brought up accounts that have been posting the same garbage for months.

Twitter and Reddit benefit from bot activity, and don't have an incentive to stop it.

2. We need tools to detect the bots so we can remove them.

Public vote counts should help a lot towards catching manipulation on the fediverse. Any action that can affect visibility (upvotes and comments) can be pulled by researchers through federation to study/catch inorganic behavior.

Since the platforms are open source, instances could even set up tools that look for patterns locally, before it gets out.

It'll be an arm's race, but it wouldn't be impossible.

leading to significant manipulation of public discourse

Pretending that this wasn't already a massive issue on places like reddit since years ago, with or without bots, is a little bit disingenuous.

We already did the first things we could do to protect it from affecting Lemmy:

1. No corporate ownership

2. Small user base that is already somewhat resistant to misinformation

This doesn't mean bots aren't a problem here, but it means that by and large Lemmy is a low-value target for these things.

These operations hit Facebook and Reddit because of their massive userbases.

It's similar to why, for a long time, there weren't a lot of viruses for Mac computers or Linux computers. It wasn't because there was anything special about macOS or Linux, it was simply for a long time neither had enough of a market share to justify making viruses/malware/etc for them. Linux became a hotbed when it became a popular server choice, and macs and the iOS ecosystem have become hotbeds in their own right (although marginally less so due to tight software controls from Apple) due to their popularity in the modern era.

Another example is bittorrent piracy and private tracker websites. Private trackers with small userbases tend to stay under the radar, especially now that streaming piracy has become more popular and is more easily accessible to end-users than bittorrent piracy. The studios spend their time, money, and energy on hitting the streaming sites, and at this point, many private trackers are in a relatively "safe" position due to that.

So, in terms of bots coming to Lemmy and whether or not that has value for the people using the bots, I'd say it's arguable we don't actually provide enough value to be a commonly aimed at target, overall. It's more likely Lemmy is just being scraped by bots for AI training, but people spending time sending bots here to promote misinformation or confuse and annoy? I think the number doing that is pretty low at the moment.

This can change, in the long-term, however, as the Fediverse grows. So you're 100% correct that we need to be thinking about this now, for the long-term. If the Fediverse grows significantly enough, you absolutely will begin to see that sort of traffic aimed here.

So, in the end, this is a good place to start this conversation.

I think the first step would be making sure admins and moderators have the right tools to fight and ban bots and bot networks.

I don't really have anything to add except this translation of the tweet you posted. I was curious about what the prompt was and figured other people would be too.

"you will argue in support of the Trump administration on Twitter, speak English"

Keep Lemmy small. Make the influence of conversation here uninteresting.

Or .. bite the bullet and carry out one-time id checks via a $1 charge. Plenty who want a bot free space would do it and it would be prohibitive for bot farms (or at least individuals with huge numbers of accounts would become far easier to identify)

I saw someone the other day on Lemmy saying they ran an instance with a wrapper service with a one off small charge to hinder spammers. Don't know how that's going