JFC, as a business owner I 100% not expect my employees to be reachable after hours. Why do these idiots don’t understand the basic principle: happy employee is productive employee. Understanding life happens and work is ‘just’ work. Give and take equally, be reasonable about stuff - basic human empathy… I hold my own personal time in high regard, it would be insane not to hold other people’s personal time in high regard too.
this post was submitted on 03 Sep 2024
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Antiwork
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We're trying to reduce the numbers of hours a person has to work.
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We talk about the end of paid work being mandatory for survival.
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SLAM! So effective. I’m thankful it’s utterly useless in this case though.
Oh that’s employees boss. We’re the majority actually. And if you stop us from organizing or voting we’re still the majority, just angrier.
what if you have to get a hold of them at two in the morning
People sometimes accuse me of being cynical, and yet here I was giving this guy the benefit of the doubt, thinking his objection might be that we don't need such a rule because employees already had the right to not answer the phone by nature and tradition.
My general sense of this dude from Shark Tank is he's an asshole. After reading about him for 5 minutes, he's definitely an asshole.
I'm available for work after hours - 1 week a month, scheduled several months in advance.
I get about 1000€ extra for it, per month. And also 42 days of paid vacation per year, plus unlimited sick days.
That's what this rule would do - force employers to make it worth your while if they need you after hours, and force them to think about whether they really need that.
I want what you have, I'm getting screwed.
Fuck, I get about a 150€ for being on call for a week. I'm getting ripped off.
You guys are getting paid for being on call?!
..me neither
If the prick wants people on-call 24 hours a day then he needs to pony up the wages to match with accompanying extended holiday for downtime.
Kevin, seriously, what actual value do you serve to the human race? What do you do that makes life better overall? I don’t mean new toys or new companies that produce more shit, what do you make for the average person that makes their life better? Nothing, is that answer. You had a chance way back, educational software could have been a human life changer.. but no, you couldn’t make money on it. So go fuck your self. Vafancullo
It’s time to hold idiots like this guy accountable.
The first time you watch Shark Tank, you might think this Kevin guy is a bit of an asshole. However, if you carefully study his history, his successes, and dig deep into what the man himself is like, you discover that he is, in fact, a piece of shit.
Headline from 100+ years ago:
'Who dreams up this balderdash?': Andrew Carnegie slams new idea pushed by labor unions that will force employers to give workers two days off at the end of every week
or maybe:
Republicans continue effort to erode US child labor rules despite teen deaths
Oh wait, no... That one was from last year https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/20/republican-child-labor-law-death
Frustrated by this news, Carnegie would later hire Pinkertons to kill his own workers.
That is what CMU calls it college team right? The fightin' pinks?
There are a lot of jobs that require out of hours support, specifically those that aren't tied to business hours. In tech at least, many of the sites and services you use are built off the backs of software engineers that are paged at 5am because latency is a little higher than normal.
I don't raise this to say that this rule is bullshit, but to say that there are a lot of arguments that will be used to push people to work longer than their allotted hours. IMO this is absolutely required, but I would go further and say that any contact outside of working hours implies a working contract, and guarantees that the employee is paid for the disruption caused. That includes on-call too, which is often unpaid.
Labor laws in the US are, frankly, hilariously bad. You deserve unlimited sick pay, at least 25 days holiday (separate from sick leave), and the removal of at-will employment. What is described here is the bare minimum of what you should have.
Those of us who admin critical systems know when we're responsible and know which folks call us regarding those systems. I'm not answering a call from a random manager but If the engineering chain calls, they don't abuse the privilege.
Hey guess what, some people have to work on weekends too. Seems like we were able to figure that one out no problem.
There are a lot of jobs that require out of hours support, specifically those that aren’t tied to business hours. In tech at least, many of the sites and services you use are built off the backs of software engineers that are paged at 5am because latency is a little higher than normal.
There is a very easy solution to this dilemma: pay someone to stand ready at off-hours.
My first job in the late 90s did just that - 1 hour pay for every 8 on call. 4 hours when you get a call (even if it took 5 minutes.)
While true, there are some complications to this:
- Unsociable hours usually require more pay
- If you're already working 40 hours a week, focusing on stuff out of hours is going to be hard. I know this all too well!
IMO, this is EXACTLY where outsourcing should be used. Either move someone from the US (or your home country) to where you need support, ensure you have a good triage system for issues that might come up, etc.
If you’re already working 40 hours a week, focusing on stuff out of hours is going to be hard. I know this all too well!
I was thinking more along the lines of 'nightshift'. 😀
I worked retail for 10+ years, and never once did I receive more pay for working on weekends, nor have I ever met anyone who has.
Might be another Americanism. It's been close to two decades since I worked retail, but I got paid more on weekends than weekdays.
What is complicated? You give two bullet points and a potential solution that all fall under the umbrella of "paying someone." This solves the problem.
It's a simple solution to what's a more nuanced problem.
Be honest. If faced with the choice to cut hours/roles, move roles overseas, or to "pay more", do you think many business owners will do the latter?
You need to consider the nuance here, otherwise you find a similar situation to the minimum wage rises, where businesses complain about the operations not being viable because they need to start treating workers like humans.
Yes, I agree. We definitely need to consider the "nuance" of a situation where business is asked to treat their workers like human beings.
You can be as obtuse as you want. You know I'm right, and it's exactly why legislation is needed to ensure these things are done correctly to stop businesses from exploiting the rules.
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