this post was submitted on 03 Sep 2024
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Antiwork

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  1. We're trying to improving working conditions and pay.

  2. We're trying to reduce the numbers of hours a person has to work.

  3. We talk about the end of paid work being mandatory for survival.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

JFC, as a business owner I 100% not expect my employees to be reachable after hours. Why do these idiots don’t understand the basic principle: happy employee is productive employee. Understanding life happens and work is ‘just’ work. Give and take equally, be reasonable about stuff - basic human empathy… I hold my own personal time in high regard, it would be insane not to hold other people’s personal time in high regard too.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

SLAM! So effective. I’m thankful it’s utterly useless in this case though.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

Oh that’s employees boss. We’re the majority actually. And if you stop us from organizing or voting we’re still the majority, just angrier.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 months ago

what if you have to get a hold of them at two in the morning

People sometimes accuse me of being cynical, and yet here I was giving this guy the benefit of the doubt, thinking his objection might be that we don't need such a rule because employees already had the right to not answer the phone by nature and tradition.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 months ago

My general sense of this dude from Shark Tank is he's an asshole. After reading about him for 5 minutes, he's definitely an asshole.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'm available for work after hours - 1 week a month, scheduled several months in advance.
I get about 1000€ extra for it, per month. And also 42 days of paid vacation per year, plus unlimited sick days.

That's what this rule would do - force employers to make it worth your while if they need you after hours, and force them to think about whether they really need that.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Fuck, I get about a 150€ for being on call for a week. I'm getting ripped off.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

You guys are getting paid for being on call?!

[–] [email protected] 25 points 2 months ago

If the prick wants people on-call 24 hours a day then he needs to pony up the wages to match with accompanying extended holiday for downtime.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Kevin, seriously, what actual value do you serve to the human race? What do you do that makes life better overall? I don’t mean new toys or new companies that produce more shit, what do you make for the average person that makes their life better? Nothing, is that answer. You had a chance way back, educational software could have been a human life changer.. but no, you couldn’t make money on it. So go fuck your self. Vafancullo

It’s time to hold idiots like this guy accountable.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The first time you watch Shark Tank, you might think this Kevin guy is a bit of an asshole. However, if you carefully study his history, his successes, and dig deep into what the man himself is like, you discover that he is, in fact, a piece of shit.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Headline from 100+ years ago:

'Who dreams up this balderdash?': Andrew Carnegie slams new idea pushed by labor unions that will force employers to give workers two days off at the end of every week

or maybe:

Republicans continue effort to erode US child labor rules despite teen deaths

Oh wait, no... That one was from last year https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/20/republican-child-labor-law-death

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago

Frustrated by this news, Carnegie would later hire Pinkertons to kill his own workers.

That is what CMU calls it college team right? The fightin' pinks?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

There are a lot of jobs that require out of hours support, specifically those that aren't tied to business hours. In tech at least, many of the sites and services you use are built off the backs of software engineers that are paged at 5am because latency is a little higher than normal.

I don't raise this to say that this rule is bullshit, but to say that there are a lot of arguments that will be used to push people to work longer than their allotted hours. IMO this is absolutely required, but I would go further and say that any contact outside of working hours implies a working contract, and guarantees that the employee is paid for the disruption caused. That includes on-call too, which is often unpaid.

Labor laws in the US are, frankly, hilariously bad. You deserve unlimited sick pay, at least 25 days holiday (separate from sick leave), and the removal of at-will employment. What is described here is the bare minimum of what you should have.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

Those of us who admin critical systems know when we're responsible and know which folks call us regarding those systems. I'm not answering a call from a random manager but If the engineering chain calls, they don't abuse the privilege.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Hey guess what, some people have to work on weekends too. Seems like we were able to figure that one out no problem.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 months ago (2 children)

There are a lot of jobs that require out of hours support, specifically those that aren’t tied to business hours. In tech at least, many of the sites and services you use are built off the backs of software engineers that are paged at 5am because latency is a little higher than normal.

There is a very easy solution to this dilemma: pay someone to stand ready at off-hours.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

My first job in the late 90s did just that - 1 hour pay for every 8 on call. 4 hours when you get a call (even if it took 5 minutes.)

[–] [email protected] -4 points 2 months ago (3 children)

While true, there are some complications to this:

  • Unsociable hours usually require more pay
  • If you're already working 40 hours a week, focusing on stuff out of hours is going to be hard. I know this all too well!

IMO, this is EXACTLY where outsourcing should be used. Either move someone from the US (or your home country) to where you need support, ensure you have a good triage system for issues that might come up, etc.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

If you’re already working 40 hours a week, focusing on stuff out of hours is going to be hard. I know this all too well!

I was thinking more along the lines of 'nightshift'. 😀

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I worked retail for 10+ years, and never once did I receive more pay for working on weekends, nor have I ever met anyone who has.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

Might be another Americanism. It's been close to two decades since I worked retail, but I got paid more on weekends than weekdays.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

What is complicated? You give two bullet points and a potential solution that all fall under the umbrella of "paying someone." This solves the problem.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It's a simple solution to what's a more nuanced problem.

Be honest. If faced with the choice to cut hours/roles, move roles overseas, or to "pay more", do you think many business owners will do the latter?

You need to consider the nuance here, otherwise you find a similar situation to the minimum wage rises, where businesses complain about the operations not being viable because they need to start treating workers like humans.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yes, I agree. We definitely need to consider the "nuance" of a situation where business is asked to treat their workers like human beings.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

You can be as obtuse as you want. You know I'm right, and it's exactly why legislation is needed to ensure these things are done correctly to stop businesses from exploiting the rules.

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