this post was submitted on 19 Aug 2024
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/26218551

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/26218550

(posting to both communities)

A carnist lemmy world instance admin has stepped in and meatsplained to the mods while restoring comments that violated the community's rules. They deleted comments that they did not agree with, citing 'misinformation', and threatened to demod the mods if those comments were removed again. The comments were deleted and the admin was banned from the community as per violating the rules of the community, that was until they unbanned themselves (admin abuse) and unmodded two of the moderators because of "promoting harmfull actions against pets".

As far as it stands, if the lemmy world community wasn't already not a safe vegan place for you (it really wasn't) it most certainly isn't now as carnists (lemmy world instance admin) currently mod it.

I suggest any vegan who wants a safe and welcoming space to come and interact with vegantheoryclub.org. Sorry for any inconvienance that this may have caused. I am deeply upset at the admins actions today and don't condone them whatsoever.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Sorry for all the hate your getting because some people’s brains are programmed to think vegan=bad. Sounds like a major overstep by admins.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I think I trust Kitten Lady over a bunch of randos on the Threadiverse. Video

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Don’t trust randos on the internet you should read studies on the matter.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Okay, I'll start by not trusting you.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I don’t blame you it’s natural to distrust the radical from your point of view.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

For what it worth, the mods at vegan community are also deleting comment disagreeing with their point of view. It's one thing to accuse rooki for power abuse, which i tend to agree as admin should be impartial to their ruling and not demote/remove based on emotion, but it's ironic that the mod also did the exact same thing they accuse rooki for. Lesson here is, don't fucking abuse power based on your emotion and then whine about it after losing that privilege. It's a very highschool drama this one is.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

It is a vegan community you’re talking about it should appeal to vegans and to the safety of animals first and foremost. People were coming into our community promoting violence against the other animals.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

I don't care what community we're talking about, we're discussing powermod/poweradmin here so i do care about the action of the mod and if you think just because you're vegan you get to be exempted by common sense, then you're mistaken. People are talking about food for pets, not for human consumption, it's still a hot topic that you yourself said it's less studied and can't even be sure if it's safe to do so, discussion amongst the community are needed, not swept under the rug. You guys are getting criticised here not because of being vegan, but because of the action you guys take, stop using veganism as your shield and looking like a bunch of imbecile.

People said veganism isn't a religion but this looks more and more like one.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Experiment on yourself all you want, but not your companion who depends on you. This is not a great subject to gather support from a larger audience with.

That being said, controversial subjects need to be discussed, not deleted. Nobody was intentionally trying to harm animals here. These actions don't feel right

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

That is a strawman. As there are numerous studies on how the vegan diet is safe for all stages of human life.

It is also proven to be safe for dogs and cats.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Well, I don't feel strongly either way for the specific issue at hand but this is drama llama content for sure!

The cool part of the Fediverse, if this is an issue that fellow vegans can't see eye to eye on, then we could have two communities, possibly on two instances. One which believes animal welfare means that domesticated animals shouldn't participate in killing other animals, viewing it as unecessary and cruel, and the other community that doesn't and only considers human nutrition choices, with the view that forcing change in domesticated animals' diets as unnatural and cruel.

Like it or not, each server's admins determine the shape of discussion and can make the final decisions on some items of discourse in situations like this, call it carnist, tankie, whatever pejorative of choosing. The recourse is to move elsewhere.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

Thanks for getting the word out about this, Beaver! With this and the pro-Zionist so-called 'media bias fact check', LW is turning to shit. I strongly dislike the anonymity of the actioning mod in the mod log. Can you name the PoS who decided to abuse their power to attack a vegan community? I'm not a fan of the theoryclub due to experiences with one mod, but I'll be on the ML and solarpunk vegan communities!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Was this some dumbass saying dogs and cats can be fine with a vegan diet? Because that is 100% Grade A bullshit and the admin's actions were justified.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

Have you looked at the research. Idk about cats, but research suggests for dogs it is okay. Dogs aren’t wolves anymore.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

Please do not use ad hominems in your argument as we need to keep the discussion civil.

There are numerous studies suggesting that the plant-based diet is safe for dogs.

However for cats there are less studies, there are papers that suggest it is also safe for cats as long as taurine is provided in the diet.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

The comments were deleted and the admin was banned from the community as per violating the rules of the community

It’s a bold strategy Cotton

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Feed your pets their fucking meat for God's sake.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Meat is not required for pets as there is enough studies to suggest this conclusion. 1 billion people are employed in animal agriculture so there is a strong conflict of interest occurring here.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Cats are obligate carnivores. If they don't eat meat, they will get sick and die. This doesn't apply to dogs.

Veganism is valid, but it does conflict with some pet ownership.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

If cats do not consume taurine they will die. This does not mean they need meat.

Yes, veganism sees "pets" as companion animals.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (3 children)

They aren't your companions, you are exploiting them for companionship. These meat eating pets can't consent to a vegan diet, they are also not ethically required by their choice to not engage in the meat system.

That's your choice, you are forcing that choice on an animal that isn't getting anything from you they wouldn't get with a non-vegan pet owner, your love isn't special.

You could ethically choose to keep any number of naturally vegan animals. You selfishly choose to keep a cat or a dog cause you like them more.

Shit is messed up in my opinion and you buried the lead with your post. I'm glad other people were around to give context to this.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Meat is not required for pets as there is enough studies to suggest this conclusion.

Bold claims require bold evidence. Natural meat eaters should naturally eat meat. To say otherwise requires a loooot of evidence.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Would an analysis of all current research be enough evidence? They conclude that there is no significant difference of cat heath when fed a nutritionally sufficient vegan diet.

The vegan diet we are talking about isn't a bunch of vegetables, it's a manufactured dry food specifically designed to have all the nutrients a cat needs.

The obsession with "natural diet" is bizarre in the first place. Are you feeding your cat small songbirds and mice, or are you feeding them dry food made with meat they never would be ankle to hunt for in the wild?

This is a contentious issue for most people, and it can be hard when you are very passionate about something to look at the evidence and change your opinion. I've looked at a decent number of studies on the topic recently, and they all seen to point to the conclusion that a diet without meat can be healthy for cats, so long as it contains all the nutrients they need.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Sounds like victim blaming imo

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

It's so funny that they're the largest instance. Only see incredible decisions coming out of there.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I actually agree in general, but this is like the one time in recent memory I have felt like whole heartedly cheering on the Lemmy.world administration team

If some other instance wants to scoop up the animal abuse demographic now that they are ejected from .world, I think we will all survive

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

If some other instance wants to scoop up the animal abuse demographic now that they are ejected from .world, I think we will all survive

Veganism is a philosophy and way of living that excludes all forms of animal exploitation and promotes animal-free alternatives.

That is misrepresenting the situations as vegans are the ones reducing animal abuse by not buying animals products and for holding those who do accountable.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

A philosophy that should not be forced on another animal against their nature.

There's some hypocrisy here!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

That is the no true scotsman fallacy. I could also say that bringing animals into our homes when they were originally from the wild is the hypocrisy here.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

You could and would probably have a point.

But it doesn't make it ok for you just because someone else did before.

Your hypocrisy is the point here.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I don’t own pets. So I’m not hypocritical in both scenarios.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

You're not even wrong.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (5 children)

Ah yes, its the people that are against harming animals that are the real animal abusers.

Feeding an animal a nutrionally complete diet: abuse

killing animals: not abuse

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Meatsplained? Sucks you guys lost your instance, but that is one of the dumbest words I've ever had the privilege of reading.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

That's exactly what a carnist blood-mouth would say! /s

(I am a vegan, but the insults that I have seen from the vegan communities here are all hilarious)

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

I cracked up when I read it.

Vegans and anti vegans seem to spend a lot of time on names

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Seriously. I stopped reading after "meatsplained" and now am rooting for the admin.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

To me this is a case where a mod didn’t know what an admin is and found out the hard way.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

I don't feel like fixing it

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I think @[email protected] owes an explanation and apology. It's fine to be invested in animal welfare, but if one learns that one is factually incorrect, then admitting it openly is the mature and responsible thing to do.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (3 children)

The comment says everything. A vegan diet is harmful for a Obligatory Carnivore, with special added supplements of course everything can become eatable for anyone.

But in general a vegan "diet" is harmful and worst case deadly for a cat. ( Dogs are Omnivores so they can eat many more things than cats )

Those "Vegan" cat food from companies has those added, those are "ok" but cats can not prosper or worst case their health worsen. As a cat owner i just dont like to see harmful content being promoted. Additionally those mods then even removed my warning about that food. Not going out for discussion just straight up removing my comment and banning me.

If you dont want to discuss, then i cant respond to it.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (5 children)

We live in a day where a healthy diet can be fully synthesized, even for a human. I think the claim that a cat cannot flourish under one requires strict scrutiny and proper links to scientific articles demonstrating this finding.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

That is true that cats are obligate carnivore however the plant-based diet is safe for cats as long as the nutrient taurine is being provided in their food.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

My cousin is a vet. She’s a vegan. Her cat is not nor would she ever make her cat a vegan. It just isn’t good for cats.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Among 1,380 respondents involved in cat diet decision-making, health and nutrition was the factor considered most important. 1,369 respondents provided information relating to a single cat fed a meat-based (1,242–91%) or vegan (127–9%) diet for at least a year. We examined seven general indicators of illness. After controlling for age, sex, neutering status and primary location via regression models, the following risk reductions were associated with a vegan diet for average cats: increased veterinary visits– 7.3% reduction, medication use– 14.9% reduction, progression onto therapeutic diet– 54.7% reduction, reported veterinary assessment of being unwell– 3.6% reduction, reported veterinary assessment of more severe illness– 7.6% reduction, guardian opinion of more severe illness– 22.8% reduction. Additionally, the number of health disorders per unwell cat decreased by 15.5%. No reductions were statistically significant. We also examined the prevalence of 22 specific health disorders, using reported veterinary assessments. Forty two percent of cats fed meat, and 37% of those fed vegan diets suffered from at least one disorder. Of these 22 disorders, 15 were most common in cats fed meat, and seven in cats fed vegan diets. Only one difference was statistically significant. Considering these results overall, cats fed vegan diets tended to be healthier than cats fed meat-based diets. This trend was clear and consistent. These results largely concur with previous, similar studies.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

I am not convinced that depending on self-reporting of veterinary outcomes from people who are feeding their cat a vegan diet is a reliable way to structure the study

In fact, I would say that purely as a personal and anecdotal conclusion, I believe that the self reporting of an indistinguishable outcome from this study probably means that these vegan diets are harming the cats significantly, if the hidden factor of vegan-diet-feeding guardians underreporting bad outcomes were to be included.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

https://theconversation.com/is-it-really-safe-to-feed-your-cat-a-vegan-diet-213356

Most of the health benefits reported for this group also did not reach statistical significance, which may be the result of simply not having enough animals in the study.

The authors reported a tendency towards positive effects of vegan diets. This means there was a general trend (which was sometimes strong), but doesn’t necessarily mean there is a very predictable relationship.

As a survey study, it’s not possible to confirm exactly what the cats were eating. Many of them went outside and may have hunted down meaty treats even while on a vegan diet. Some owners also fed their cats treats and essential nutrient supplements, so any beneficial effects (or a lack of harmful effects) may not be due to diet alone.

Another missing piece of information is how long the cats were kept on the diet. We might assume one year – but this isn’t specifically stated. This is important information since deficiency diseases can take time to develop.

Finally, any study assessing animal health will have inherent limitations if it’s designed as a survey. Pet owners usually aren’t medically trained and their “opinions” can be subjective and therefore biased.

Owners who had removed or reduced meat in their own diet were over-represented in the study. These people may already anticipate vegan diets are better for health, and this thinking could influence their responses.

It’s also worth noting the study was funded by ProVeg International – a food awareness organisation that promotes plant-based products. While this might not have impacted the validity of data, it could have influenced the stance taken when reporting on the results.

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