this post was submitted on 28 Jan 2024
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There are a myriad of news articles here on Lemmy that display the abhorrent influence billionaires have on our society (especially the US, where I reside). I consistently read comments where the posters appear hopeless and despondent of the situation, while others jokingly refer to the guillotine.

As for myself, I have recently found myself with a lot of free time on my hands after being laid off and want to gather ideas on what would be the best hypothetical route to solve this issue. Let me be clear: These are only THEORETICAL IDEAS and I do not condone any illegal activity.

Historical precedent: While I am not intimately familiar with the inner workings of the Occupy Movement, I do know that they were constantly attacked as being unorganized and lacking structure. It would be wise to not fall into the same pitfalls if those were accurate assessments.

Logical formulation: The foundations of the key points of the movement must be logically sound to withstand any external (and internal for that matter) scrutiny.

Motto: If a motto or slogan is chosen, it must be unambiguous so that attacks are directed to the movement, not the motto itself.

I am also aware that most people can't spare any time to these kind of movements. Similar to the Texas seceding news, many commentators have noted that most Texans are living paycheck to paycheck and wouldn't be able to dedicate any time to their cause. I would understand that would be same for this cause as well. However, since I have the time right now, I only ask for your ideas.

Broad issues: High cost of living (mortgages, rent, groceries, etc.) Inflation Homelessness

Philosophical underpinnings: Is there a Threshold of Greed? If so, what is too much wealth?

Possible means of reductions: Voluntary donation or renunciation of wealth past a certain point (highly unlikely) Taxation (also unlikely) Seizing assets (illegal and would most likely set a poor precedent)

It might also to organize an open database of billionaires with their respective fields (Forbes is closed) to help organize a boycott of some sort Though I suspect their fingers are in everything and it would be highly impractical.

Sorry for the word diarrhea. What are your thoughts?

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 8 months ago (5 children)

"billionaires" wouldn't be so bad if they just:

  • paid the taxes expected, with no shenanigans

  • were obligated to activate their cash in the economy. No hording, get that cash moving through the economy.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago

Honestly? Nothing can be done short of violent revolution. The rich control the government and the government controls us. Voting is lauded as the common person's chance to have their voice heard, but it's a gerrymandered mess. The politicians are all liars who just want in for clout, power and money. It's a perfect system of control down to even allowing us right now to freely talk about it because they know we're too scared, too fat and too distracted to make any real change. We're prisoners here.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I don’t think the crazy taxes need to be on obscene wealth itself, but on the very lavish and wasteful things people do with that wealth, things that have a very real impact to the rest of society.

For example, private jets or even private chartered flights should have some very steep taxes to offset the cost of all the FAA employees and stuff at all the small airports, all the carbon emissions, and everything.

Yachts, and very large properties also come to mind. Like total square feet of living space of all real estate owned - once it crosses like 10,000 sq ft the annual taxes just get higher and higher. For example 10k-20k sq ft costs $1/sq ft annually, 20k-40k costs $5/sq ft, etc.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago (1 children)

They barely spend money on these things, it's worth understanding what billionaire really means. You could levey hundred percent taxes on these things and billionaires wouldn't even notice

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

And yet they go through great lengths to make sure those things aren't taxed the way other things are. In fact, they're tax deductable: https://www.propublica.org/article/private-jets-yachts-wealthy-tax-deductions-irs-files .

If they didn't care about spending extra, stuff like that wouldn't make it into laws.

Being wealthy is cheap in a lot of ways, in the same way that being poor is expensive.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 8 months ago

Tax any loans using stocks as collateral. If they try to hide their wealth through an LLC, subject that LLC to a high wealth/business tax as well. Go full scorched earth on all billionaires.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago

Convince them to take a trip to see the Titanic...

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

A recent study has shown there is little increase in happiness beyond $500,000 in annual earnings. Based on that I suggest a cap of $500k per year or $50 million lifetime earnings.

The former would be for most people, the latter is for movie stars or athletes who might have a few very high earning years and love off them the rest of their life.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Yes, yes. Guillotines. Come on, do you really think that could happen? I just don't think it is realistic.

After the recent news of several billionaires asking to be taxed more that seems like the most realistic and viable to redistribute some of the wealth. I think you could probably get unions and democrats (leverage ALL existing organizations) to help lobby for some sort of "patriotic wealth tax" or however you wish to spin it. Start small to get it established and then keep lobbying to increase it.

I would recommend staring with a tax on income (ANY income with NO deductions) over $1M/year, maybe 10%. And then tax anyone's assets over $1bn at 2% every 5 years. Then keep changing those numbers to increase the revenue.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

Thank you for a thought-out response.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Since force is a clear crowd favorite: What would that look like? Angry mod surrounds home of billionaire and guillotines them on their lawn? According to Forbes there are currently 735 billionaires. That might take some time.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

It took about a century in France just to go from monarchy to republic.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago (1 children)

we need to change the parameters of success.

the current "world's richest persons" list is actually the "world's greediest persons" list. we need to all start calling it exactly that. we need to, as society, understand that having those levels of wealth is more a symptom of a sick and twisted mind rather than a consequence of "business acumen".

the world's richest persons list should be recalibrated to what percentage of one's income has been given away in taxes and donations. think about it, if you can indulge in all your necessities, comforts, and luxuries on 10% of your income and still afford to give away the other 90%, are you not 9 times "richer" than you need to be?

separately, any company that turns an obscene profit has done so only by overcharging their customers. these companies should be vilified therefore, and not celebrated.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago (2 children)

So true. And a national change in perspective is definitely achievable.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Education. Until the masses realize the tricks being used on them, we can redistribute all we want and it will still all funnel up to the top again.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 8 months ago (3 children)

We’ve tried that.

They still decided horse dewormer was a better idea than masks.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

Yeah and it worked, now the rug has been pulled from schools for a long time.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago (3 children)

There was significant mis-information, which caused that uneducated choice. People didn't all randomly come up with it by themselves. Blame the con-artist, not the victim of the confidence trickery.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 8 months ago

Through force.

The system is well and truly rigged, that there is no option for “democratic” means to counter it.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

The Rupert's Land Act?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

Do it yourself, coward

[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)
[–] [email protected] 18 points 8 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I bet Jeff Bezos tastes like warm dog shit

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago

That's a testable hypothesis.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago

Public service isn't always fun.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 8 months ago (2 children)

A wealth tax does seem warranted for billionaires. I don't like the idea of taxing something inert but honestly that's how they make money. They borrow against thousands of shares at a time and pay zero taxes on the loan.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Also land ownership is literally extracting money from having arbitrarily exclusive access to an "inert" ressource.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago (2 children)

The wealth tax has never sat well with me either. We are talking about taxing someone based on the value of an asset that they would need to collateralize or liquidate to pay the tax bill. That doesn’t seem right or fair to me.

On the other hand, I read today about Trader Joe’s and their suit against the NLRB and I’ve changed my mind. They engaged in a bunch of shady union-busting behavior, they got caught, and now they’re arguing the NLRB is unconstitutional. Meanwhile, the NLRB has been wielding this power for like 90 years.

Where we’re at is, obscenely wealthy people who break the law are essentially giving the government the finger and saying they should be allowed to do it. They’re acting as if they believe they are powerful enough that they are no longer subject to laws. Trump and Musk are no different. I’m sure there are plenty more.

It used to be people like that were mostly normal. They would make contributions, get their way most of the time, get some pushback when they went too far, maybe kicked and screamed a little bit, but they would eventually get in line.

Now, they simply say the rules are bullshit and they shouldn’t have to follow them anymore. These people are undermining our government and subverting the rule of law. It’s time they get kicked in the teeth.

They derive their power from wealth. Although our government has plenty of problems, it’s still ours if we can hold onto it. It’s time to make a statement to anyone who dares threaten that. FAFO. I’m all for taxing these fuckers.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago

Don’t have time for a longer post right now. But here’s my question about the wealth tax -

Trickle down BS and Invisible Hand BS all say that if people have wealth, they WILL reinvest it. That’s the correct thing to do.

When you drive a car, the correct thing to do is drive safely and at a logical speed. If you do irrational driving, you get a ticket.

So why isn’t it logical that if you are participating in a capitalist economy, and not doing the correct thing of constantly reinvesting your money, then the govt should fine you for it?

Wealth shouldn’t just sit around and do nothing, specially in foreign bank accounts. If it does, it should be fined… or taxed.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 months ago (2 children)

An upper income cap for individuals AND corporations. $250 million for individuals, $250 billion for corps. 90% taxes on revenue over $1 million. Tax idle stock at 1% per share, per quarter.

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[–] [email protected] 48 points 8 months ago (5 children)

Step 1: Slay the dragon.

Step 2: Redistribute its mountain of gold back into the community.

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