this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2024
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[–] [email protected] 95 points 10 months ago (18 children)

I usually don't get all that pissy about doctors running late. However, there was one time I was really irritated.

I took my wife to the doctor for an appointment. She got the first appointment of the day. We were there 45 minutes early. We waited more than 30 minutes past when the appointment was supposed to start. While we were waiting there, the doctor came in through the waiting room.

It's one thing to be running late because of the normal day to day delays that happen in a medical practice, but if you're actually just running late getting to work, you should call and have your staff let the patients know.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 10 months ago

“Nurse, can you bring me the big needles?”

[–] [email protected] 178 points 10 months ago (4 children)

My psych often has people wait for their appointments. I'll be scheduled for 800, there at 740, get seen at 840.

And you know what? That's perfectly fine. I feel taken seriously, he listens, he asks, he quips, he shares his own experiences, he does all he can to make me comfortable telling him about the shit going on in my head. I'll work up the courage to tell him something I find hard to phrase and unpleasant to talk about and he takes it with a relaxed professionalism, waiting patiently for me to finish, asks questions (usually very precise ones, both unpleasant in how close to home they hit and reassuring in the implications that I'm not the only one with these issues) and looks for the best way to help me.

So when I sit in that waiting room, watching the minutes tick by, I imagine he's taking the same time with a different, far more difficult patient. Perhaps someone got slotted in for an emergency, perhaps someone needs blood drawn for a routine check and really, really hates needles, perhaps someone is having a breakdown... I don't know and I don't care what ails the other patients, but I know that I want them to receive the same quality of care as I do. To me, that's worth waiting for.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 10 months ago (3 children)

If the appointments last longer....maybe he should schedule them properly

[–] [email protected] 14 points 10 months ago

You got downvotes for it but nah, it's on the Dr if this is a regular occurrence. Once or twice or going over a min or two is fine, but regularly being 45 minutes late (hello my last Dr) is a sign you've lied to everyone scheduling an appointment about how long they are and when to even be there for one

[–] [email protected] 16 points 10 months ago

It's hard to predict just how long an appointment will take. Some have been done in five minutes, just a brief check-in and new prescription, and scheduling half an hour for that would mean twiddling his thumbs for twenty minutes he could have spent helping someone that arrived rather punctual for their appointment. I think scheduling for the average appointment but allowing overtime for those who need it is the more patient-friendly approach.

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[–] [email protected] 112 points 10 months ago (2 children)

There's a movement inside of Healthcare to get the average Dr's office humming like a dentist. Which, if you're concerned with patient care at all, is impossible. You'll see it with posters saying only one issue per visit, which also greatly imperils the patient as sometimes a diagnosis will change based off one symptom. You've got a good attitude about this. Please share it

[–] [email protected] 59 points 10 months ago (2 children)

This is the product of clinics being owned by corporations chasing a specific return, and not being owned by a local group of physicians who actually want to care for people.

Shop local applies.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 10 months ago (2 children)

We get the same issue in Ontario with family health teams. The structure of the corporation matters, but so does the funding model

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 10 months ago

As far as I can tell, my psych is doing well enough to not worry about his living, not particularly keen on getting rich, deals with some super heavy things and curses at the stupid computer system he's required to use, so he's probably chronically low on fucks to give for seeing the maximum amount of patients per day.

But yeah, when you see him walk out of one room with a heavier-than-usual frown on his face, taking a deep breath to compose himself before walking into the next one, you start to wonder how many times he's had to put on a stoic face before seeing you. And then he sits down, asks how you're doing, whether you've done that thing you mentioned wanting to do last time and gives you full attention.

I have nothing but respect for that man. I've moved a good bit away from him now, but I'd still rather take the long trip to see him for my regular appointments than search for a new one.

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[–] [email protected] 124 points 10 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 48 points 10 months ago

This comic is based on a true story. I'm certain, as father of a two year old.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Unless that doctor is performing emergency surgery there really is no reason they need to keep people waiting that long. it's so disrespectful, doesn't matter they are a doctor.

[–] [email protected] 96 points 10 months ago (8 children)

It’s awesome being a doctor because you get to try your best to help people all day, get held up by patients talking about 6 different issues they didn’t even book their appointment for, held up by admin demanding you finish your notes between patients, held up by arguing on the phone with insurance that won’t authorize clearly necessary treatments, held up by nursing staff (understandably) needing your input on things between patients, and then read people bitching online like you were just spending that time drinking coffee and flirting with the nurses when you have a caffeineh eadache because you haven’t even had enough time to stop and drink coffee at all AND admin is bitching at you because you aren’t seeing enough patients every day.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I don’t think people mean it’s the doctors fault or that they’re sitting around doing Jack. The frustration is that doctors time is so packed full that they don’t have time for all those things, which is an administration problem.

Clinic/hospital admins want to pack the doctors schedule full of 15min increment appointments, where they’re expected to see the patient, diagnose/treat, and complete notes/charts within an incredibly short amount of time.

Worst part is that most of the time this is not done because the clinic is having trouble making money, but because they want MORE profit from every person walking into their doors.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago

You sound so disrespectful...

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

All of that for 6€/h after taxes!

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Ok but like, there was a little sip and flirt on the way wasn't there? ;)

I kid. Keep on keeping on.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

A doctor tha expects those things to happen should schedule based on that knowledge.

If the admin has unrealistic expectations, then those expectations need to be addressed.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Doctors don’t do the scheduling. The idea of telling admin to change their expectations is laughable.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

What a defeatist attitude.

The doctor is a professional and can address things, no matter who does the actual work. If they can't even address issues with an admin on acheduling, what are they going to do when the admin stops ensuring they have all the supplies they need?

[–] [email protected] 28 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (4 children)

Unfortunately the doctors usually aren't the ones managing the schedule. The admin / secretaries are.
And good ones, that understand that a new patient with no file, that doesn't speak the language, that has a history of complications with her previous pregnancies, etc is not gonna be a normal half hour consultation are extremely rare.
Even kind ones that see that you are swamped day in day out just seem to assume that these are teething difficulties, adapting to the position, etc (even after almost two years).

And so that's how my wife ends up doing a ten hour workday. Nonstop. With no break for lunch because hey, too bad, she finished the morning shift two hours late and now her first afternoon appointment has been waiting for half an hour...

But of course if you tell patients there is no time for them because the few doctors that are here are already overworked...

(to be clear, I've been saying the same thing as you to my wife for two years now. But apparently the message is not getting across)

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Idk if my boss gives me a schedule with unreasonable timelines and deliverables, I tell him, and we talk about it, and we get it fixed. If it keeps happening, I've found new work.

Maybe the medical industry has systematic issues that can't be resolved, but everyone should have some autonomy

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago

The problem is that doctors and more broadly care workers have a hard time walking away from their job because, you know, they care for people that they would leave in a worse situation if they left.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

Unfortunately the doctors usually aren’t the ones managing the schedule.

A doctor can address the scheduling issue with whoever does the scheduling. Addressing does not mean the doctor gets their way, but that they discussed it and attempted change.

If they can't have that discussion, why are they atill working there and what is their plan when changes are made that make scheduling even worse?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Why can't your wife adjust her schedule? She's the one with the medical degree. She can ask for anything she wants, within reason.

Tell her to say that she needs more time between patients to avoid a lawsuit. She doesn't want to miss anything. They'll listen to that.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Yeeep. We are on the same wavelength. I literally opened my argument with the same idea, last time we had the convo : she's the one with the doctorates, plural. She should be the one telling them what she can and can't handle. Feck, her head doctor is on the same page too. Unfortunately that sort of power seems to come with age and even at 40 she still doesn't have that kind of attitude. One could attribute this to her gender, I suppose, but having seen my dad do exactly the same thing throughout his career until he reached near retirement age, and having seen all my dad's colleagues do the same thing, hopefully you get the idea.

There just isn't enough time and too many patients for not enough doctors. Always. And most doctors want to help their patients, so they just don't count the hours, until the work is done.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 10 months ago (1 children)

And you haven't even gotten to the medical billing phase that's been strangling American healthcare systems for decades!

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Thankfully we are in France and everybody is fighting tooth and nails to not become that. So far so good.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 10 months ago (3 children)

everybody!?

what an overstatement!

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[–] [email protected] -2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Then book fewer patients per day (assuming it's your own practice). It's one thing to have a bad day where you fall behind. It's another thing when you fall an hour behind every day.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 10 months ago (1 children)

So what happens if a patient lies about their concern and a 15 minute checkup is all of a sudden a 45 minute spiel. You can’t just leave a patient you’re treating, they try to allow for some leeway, but they’re a business too after all, can’t be sitting around either.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 10 months ago (3 children)

they’re a business too

Without meaning to go completely off the rails, maybe this is part of the problem? I mean we can't sink our entire GDP into toenail fungus, but there ought to be some middle ground somewhere.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Even in public health care, family doctors who don’t work in government hospitals or clinics, operate their own “store front” have their own bills and employees and can only bill the government certain amounts for certain visits. So if they can’t bill the government for sitting around, it’s cash out of their pocket for their expenses.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Right and that is getting off the rails. I know providing healthcare isn't free so consuming it isn't free either. But when a public need becomes a profit-seeking venture, I start getting skeptical that this is the best way to ensure efficient use of resources.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Profit

can only bill government certain amount for certain visits.

How are they making a profit seeking business when they can only bill insurance, WCB, or the the public health care system a certain amount for each visit. There is some uninsured things, but they don’t charge unreasonable amounts, people would go elsewhere. It keeps everyone honest in that regard. And they only charge since they can’t bill anyone else and it costs them time and money.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

You called it a business. Which I read as "profit-seeking endeavor". Perhaps you intended it differently.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Not for profits are also businesses… your assumptions are your bias… and ignorance.

Edit Actually, which definition are you even using here…?

No definition has “profit” in it that I can see

My intention is the definition of the word, what is YOUR intention here dude?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Have you ever... like... had a conversation before? I can't read your fucking mind. I explained my point of view and you explained yours and corrected how I'd read something different than you intended. edit: The doctors I see are all part of a larger, profit-seeking business. I have not seen these non-profit doctors outside of Doctors Without Borders and such.

What part of that means you need to be a prick about things? If you suggest medicine should be non-profit then we are in agreement and there is no need to be an asshole. That's not at all how I read your first message, so excuse the fuck out of me for trying to have a conversation on a fucking message board.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

You can’t read my mind, yet you picked a definition that doesn’t exist? And tried using it as your argument? That’s not how people have conversations dude.

I’m sorry you are using your US based logic for a global conversation, not every place it out there to rip you off. I had already explained how they can only bill X amount, so how can you profit from that? Please explain YOUR perspective on this one, please.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 10 months ago

I don't think "they're a business" properly captures the concern. It's probably more accurate to say that they have a desire to operate efficiently and not waste resources, but it has to be balanced against the need to treat patients effectively and fairly.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

So long as demand exceeds capacity, we will wait.

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