this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2024
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No Stupid Questions

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Wouldn't it cut down on search queries (and thus save resources) if I could search for "this is my phrase" rather than rawdogging it as an unbound series of words, each of which seems to be pulling up results unconnected to the other words in the phrase?

There are only 2 reasons I can think of why a website's search engine lacks this incredibly basic functionality:

  1. The site wants you to spend more time there, seeing more ads and padding out their engagement stats.
  2. They're just too stupid to know that these sorts of bare-bones search engines are close to useless, or they just don't think it's worth the effort. Apathetic incompetence, basically.

Is there a sound financial or programmatic reason for running a search engine which has all the intelligence of a turnip?

Cheers!

EDIT: I should have been a bit more specific: I'm mainly talking about search engines within websites (rather than DDG or Google). One good example is BitTorrent sites; they rarely let you define exact phrases. Most shopping websites, even the behemoth Amazon, don't seem to respect quotation marks around phrases.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

It's because websites interpret those characters differently because of how coding requires using the physical qwerty keyboard. Essentially ">" gets used as a compator operator in programming languages, which means that it's used as a tool to instructs the computer how to do things. When we need to display the symbol, we use ">" as an "escaped character" which basically means treat it as the symbol, not the instruction set. Often search engines will use a very powerful tool called a regular expression which looks like this for phone numbers: ^(\d{3})\s\d{3}-\d{4}

And each character represents something, ^ means start with. \d means digit { means 3 of whatever's in front of me }. Breaking apart the search parameters is pretty complex and it needs to happen FAST, so at a certain point the developers just throw away things that can be a security concern like special characters like &^|`"'* specially because they can be used to maliciously attack the search engine.

For other characters: https://www.w3schools.com/html/html_entities.asp

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago

For the most part I think they do. I frequently use quoted strings in my search queries (on DDG and Google, I hardly ever use any other search engines) and it usually seems to show me more relevant ones when I do that.

But in general the WWW is now so big that search engines have been having to become more and more complex (and think for themselves instead of taking the queries very literally) in order to be useful at all.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I'm going to break with what most people are saying and offer the suggestion that search engines are actually doing a decent job. If my mother searches Google for the phrase "Can you please show me a recipe for apple pie?," she's probably going to get a recipe for apple pie. If I search google for "c++20" "std::string" "constructors", after I skip over the ads, I'm most likely going to get a web page that shows me the the constructors for std::string in c++20.

Ad-sponsored pages and AI bullshit aside, most search engines do still give decent results.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

I think OP is complaining about non Google search engines

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago

Guys, please. The solution to Google reinterpreting your search queries has been around for years, and it is called VERBATIM SEARCH. (Search options: All results -> Verbatim). Voila, welcome back to 1997.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago

I don't know the answer but I can tell you two things:

  1. It has often been beneficial to me when the search query wasn't taken literally, it's not always a bad thing. Many searches are ones where the user doesn't know exactly what they're looking for. Granted, that's definitely not always the case. That said, I don't remember ever catching it outright ignore stuff like quoted words/phrases.
  2. Regarding "save resources", Google introduced Instant Search in 2010 which started showing results as you type, thus creating an ungodly amount of extra load on their servers since each user search now created multiple queries. They clearly have no trouble scaling up resources.
[–] [email protected] 30 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I could FEEL when amazon removed the not and quote functions... now it's nigh-unusable.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I hate trying to search for specific things on amazon because negative operators don't work. I'm frequently trying to find products that don't contain specific words. Like when I wanted a foam mattress cover that wasn't cooling. I need all the heat I can get when sleeping. But trying to find one that wasn't marketed as cooling? No such luck. I tried using search engines that honor negatives but no such luck. Amazon has thwarted every attempt to find what I want.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago

I use the browser search to highlight the word I want to ignore on the page so I can quickly scroll through and ignore those items. It sucks that I have to do that, but at least it helps a bit.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I'm convinced there's an AI in Google search now that reinterprets what you put. It never seems to give me what I search, only what it thinks I mean.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 4 months ago

I said so-fucking-long to Google long ago and switched to DuckDuckGo. If I ever get really nowhere and think maybe googs might have a result for me, then on the Duck you just use a !g before your terms and it facilitates the search thru Google but without their ads.

Their focus shifted long ago from being the best to just figuring out new ways to get more out of users, no matter how deceitful and manipulative they need to be.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 4 months ago (1 children)

It’s largely the first one, at least according to The Man Who Killed Google Search.

See also the Hackernews discussion and this follow-up article by the same author (with links to an article with Google’s response, summaries of other discussions on the topic, etc.)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

Wow, spent the last 30min to read everything. Thanks for sharing this, really interesting articles.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

I start to feel ill whenever I need to use the search in BitBucket.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago (1 children)

It's cheaper for them not to do it and you'll still search so they don't care.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

Not any more. I use an offline open source LLM first quite a bit now because it is better than their junk. It may only be accurate 80% of the time, but that is a far higher percentage than any present search engine.

People complain about web scrapers, but scraping is the only practical alternative for finding info and sources now that the web crawlers are worse than trash.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago

No. The issue is websites are trash, not the crawlers. SEO has created a weird amalgamation of content, filler, and keywords. It's why recipe sites have stories with every recipe.

Google very much is responsible for the current web design though.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

Sadly, and honestly, this.

Using an LLM with 4-year-old data is a better experience than digging through three pages of Google blog spam

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