What is preventing someone from just walking into a random store with no Amazon account and walking out with stuff?
this post was submitted on 02 Apr 2024
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The one I went to had a turnstile after you walk though the front door so you needed to scan the code from the app.
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What is preventing someone from doing that at Walmart?…
I don't know about Walmart but I heard Target will facial recognize you and deliberately wait across multiple trips until you have stolen enough to make it grand theft before taking action.
Is that tracking distributed across stores or do I have license to steal $9999 from each one?
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The state constables posted at the exit usually lol
I don't know where you live, but I've been in many Walmarts in the U.S. and they have private security who are never posted at the exit that I've ever seen. Mostly they just sit in an office and watch security cameras.
I've definitely seen actual cops standing at the front of the store. They're also there every day and park their cars up front in the fire lane.
Maybe you've seen it, but it's not common in my experience.
I just traveled across four states and, because of the bad weather, we stopped at Walmarts along the way so my elderly mother could walk around and stretch her legs.
Not one cop.
I think it's something they do or have done around the holidays when it's very busy. They might be hiring off duty cops and having them wear their uniform.
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Not much. Employees don't give a fuck and if they did, they would probably get fired for trying to stop a thief.
Actually, many places where I live are scaling back self-checkout. I suspect it's because the geniuses who tried to save a buck by getting rid of tellers didn't realize they would lose more from theft. (It's amazing how many people don't give two fucks about shareholder profits, actually.)
Yes, shareholders aren't people so we shouldn't really care about them at all
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Yeah that was my point. :P
A thief is a thief, someone willing to steal from a store covered from top to bottom in cameras and sensors is going to be willing to steal from just about anywhere.
But there are people at Walmart working. No one is in the Amazon Fresh store?
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It's a shame this isn't working out, I was really hoping it would turn out to be a better way of doing self-checkouts.
The little convenience store on my way to work is nice, but I guess it falls apart in a larger store situation.
The Amazon near me has a "Just Fuck Off" policy. They redecorated the old Toys R Us building a few years ago and then never bothered to open the store.
It worked really smoothly for me…the one time I went cuz it was such a depressing experience. Don’t get me wrong tho. I love self checkout. Amazon store sucks.
That immediately reminded me the story of the Mechanical Turk. Check the link for further info - to keep it short both are ways to hide human labour behind alleged automation.
I believe it was Molly White (@[email protected] ) who said that every AI idea like this will eventually be revealed to be a mechanical turk. So far she seems right on point.
You linked to the original Mechanical Turk. Perhaps you already know this but Amazon actually runs an Mechanical Turk service:
You linked to the original Mechanical Turk.
Yup, that's intended. The original Mechanical Turk was a con, just like Amazon's "just walk out" service.
The Amazon's Mechanical Turk was never a con. It's been known for a very long time that it's a way to outsource human tasks on a large scale cheaply. Like, a very long time. I think I first heard about it like 12 years ago?
Unless you mean the way it exploits poor countries for cheap labor. I wouldn't call that a con, but it is fucked.
The Amazon’s Mechanical Turk was never a con.
I wouldn't go that far. They heavily implied that you could make a decent living doing it, not 20 cents per survey or whatever it is.
By "original Mechanical Turk", I am clearly referring to the chess player inside a box. It was a con because the system was presented as an automaton, when it is simply human labour.
And I am calling Amazon's "just walk out" service also a con because it was touted as automatic, even if also being mostly human labour.
I am not calling "Amazon's Mechanical Turk" a con. It is exploitative, as you said, but it is not a con. People know that it is human labour, and Amazon does not try to hide it.
Is this clear now?
And I am calling Amazon’s “just walk out” service also a con because it was touted as automatic, even if also being mostly human labour.
That's not what a con is. A con is a deliberate scam. Amazon's automated checkout simply didn't function as effectively as intended. They presumably lost money on the venture because the automation was unreliable. Nothing about this situation was a deliberate attempt to pay over 1,000 employees to check an automated system's work.
The Mechanical Turk is an interesting story and I'm glad you linked it, but it's not all that similar.
Yep, thanks
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He means the namesake, not the web service from the last 20 years.
According to The Information, 700 out of 1,000 Just Walk Out sales required human reviewers as of 2022. This widely missed Amazon’s internal goals of reaching less than 50 reviews per 1,000 sales.
Lmao.
This feels so creepy to, being watched spending your money by slaves on the other side of the globe, and Amazon pretending it to be automated !
Amazon pretending it to be automated !
Is it surprising for a company running a service called Mechanical Turk?
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I sat in front of one of these ideas at an airport. People are just dumb. They couldn’t figure out how to get into the store. They didn’t understand how to pay by just leaving.
idk...
According to The Information, 700 out of 1,000 Just Walk Out sales required human reviewers as of 2022. This widely missed Amazon’s internal goals of reaching less than 50 reviews per 1,000 sales. Amazon called this characterization inaccurate, and disputes how many purchases require reviews.
if Amazon wasn't the source of this number, where is it coming from?
Amazon was using people to train the model, so at the starts it would be 100%, but eventually the goal would be to get near zero, maybe the average was 70% but when the ended it was near 40%?
If the numbers don’t match your narrative, just make them up! That’s the Gizmodo way.
Or Amazon, if you don't like your employees having labor rights, just sue to have the NLRB declared unconstitutional with such awesome groups as Elon Musk's SpaceX.
Probably the '1000 people in india' reviewing that footage.
The rest of the articles linked in the above one are pay walled and I don't care enough to dig further.
Goes to show the true state of the art for AI right now
I'm not an expert but uh, I don't think this had anything to do with AI. It was just a scanner in a basket.
It did have AI, the cameras adjusted based on location, proximity, lighting, etc. They tracked you through the store and gavenyou a unique ID were trained to manage you being blocked from view by other shoppers.
Scanners in baskets/carts is what they are replacing this with.
The 'Just Walk Out' system was as the name implies; grab product and leave. No scanners, no checkout, no cashiers; just cameras watching you shop, and a heavy implication that that video is primarily watched by AI to determine your purchases. AFAIK the only scanners were to read a qr code on entry to associate you with your amazon account; the rest is hands off. Or at least that's what it's supposed to be. Seems there's a lot more labour under the hood than the advertising said. Shocker.
Sounds like it was primarily watched by people in India.
Yes, because when you run systems like that, you use the AI, and you have the people as a fallback for when the AI fails.
It was primarily watched by people in India because the AI was failing the vast majority of the time.
So yeah, the state of the art AI is... Failing at its job 70% of the time. Instead of the hoped goal of 5%.
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This is the best summary I could come up with:
Amazon is phasing out its checkout-less grocery stores with “Just Walk Out” technology, first reported by The Information Tuesday.
The technology allows customers to skip checkout altogether by scanning a QR code when they enter the store.
Though it seemed completely automated, Just Walk Out relied on more than 1,000 people in India watching and labeling videos to ensure accurate checkouts.
However, the spokesperson acknowledged these associates validate “a small minority” of shopping visits when AI can’t determine a purchase.
Amazon Fresh, the e-commerce giant’s grocery store first launched in 2007, has just over 40 locations around the United States.
Amazon’s push away from expensive tests like Just Walk Out may be a sign the company is looking to further expand its presence as a supermarket.
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