this post was submitted on 25 Jan 2024
20 points (81.2% liked)

Unpopular Opinion

6294 readers
60 users here now

Welcome to the Unpopular Opinion community!


How voting works:

Vote the opposite of the norm.


If you agree that the opinion is unpopular give it an arrow up. If it's something that's widely accepted, give it an arrow down.



Guidelines:

Tag your post, if possible (not required)


  • If your post is a "General" unpopular opinion, start the subject with [GENERAL].
  • If it is a Lemmy-specific unpopular opinion, start it with [LEMMY].


Rules:

1. NO POLITICS


Politics is everywhere. Let's make this about [general] and [lemmy] - specific topics, and keep politics out of it.


2. Be civil.


Disagreements happen, but that doesn’t provide the right to personally attack others. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Please also refrain from gatekeeping others' opinions.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Shitposts and memes are allowed but...


Only until they prove to be a problem. They can and will be removed at moderator discretion.


5. No trolling.


This shouldn't need an explanation. If your post or comment is made just to get a rise with no real value, it will be removed. You do this too often, you will get a vacation to touch grass, away from this community for 1 or more days. Repeat offenses will result in a perma-ban.



Instance-wide rules always apply. https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

There's this rising narrative going around that if you ask specifically for a CIS partner, you're a transphobe. That could be true for some people but it's not fundamentally related to bigotry. Moreover, this narrative, the "if you only want a CIS mate then that is prejudice" is trampling on one of the most important rights a person can have: the right to choose who they want to get intimate with.

First of all, transmen are in fact men and transwomen are in fact women. Let's get that out of the way. This isn't a foot in the door for "trans this really isn't that" narratives. What this is about it is the freedom to choose who you want to be intimate with. That right is sancrosanct, it is absolutely inviolable.

And yes, there's plenty of issues that make transgender dating a special issue. If someone reveals their TG status they can be open to hate crimes and even deadly violence. However all marginalized groups are special in their own way. As a black man I don't think it's racist if a woman says she doesn't want to date a black man. I face oppression, too. My class is special in its own way. One group isn't more special than the other. None of us have the right to force ourselves upon those who don't want to be intimate with us, even by omitting who we really are.

Really, if you have to deceive or hide who you are in order to date someone, do you really want to date them? I wouldn't. That's not fair to you and you're denying them their right to choose who they want. What do you think will happen when the person wants a CIS mate and they discover the truth? They're going to get pissed and dump you. Now you have to shame them into staying with you: "If you loved me for real this wouldn't bother you"... that's not going to convince anyone. They're either going to leave, or they'll resent you forever. That's just how it is. You can be mad at that but that's about as effective as protesting the rising of the sun. There's just no way to win once you've gone down that road.

"I want a CIS mate" is not the same as "trans women are not women" - one is a preference, the other is harmful prejudice. On the flip side CIS people who do date trans people shouldn't be shamed for their choices either. A man should be free to date a trans woman and not catch flak about it. Trans people should be able to be openly trans and not face hate speech or threats to their well-being. This, without any exception whatsoever.

The fundamental fact is when you shame or worse abrogate people's right to choose who they want to get intimate with, it's not going to end well for you. All you're going to get is people who resent being coerced or bullied to date people they don't want to. And that's not something the country, or the world, will ever put up with. Except that right now, most people don't imagine they can be labeled a transphobe just for wanting a CIS mate. And unpopular opinion: that should be nipped in the bud.

(page 2) 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] -1 points 9 months ago

Think about your ideal type, for example if you like women who have a certain cup size, a certain hair color, a lovely voice, you prefer a vagina, these are all preferences and that's fine. They are all also achievable by a trans woman or a cis woman. If a woman meets every single one of your standards and preferences to a tee and the only reason you will not date her is because she is trans, that's when it gets transphobic. It's not because you have a genitle preference, it's not because you want a girl who walks, talks, and acts a certain way, it's not because of any of that. It's because if your absolute ideal woman was in front of you, but she had transitioned to get there, it's an immediate no.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 9 months ago

Somehow, nobody here is talking about that "cis mate" is accidentally too restrictive, if it's about genital preference. Saying "I want a cis mate" is going to exclude non-binary people that would actually be perfectly compatible with your genital preference and present close enough to the gender you're attracted to. Let's be appropriately specific when talking about this stuff, people

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago

Your first mistake is using dating apps.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

I don't trust the way this question is framed. Yes people have preferences but why do you have to ask other people how to talk to someone like a human being? We are human. You can just have a conversation with us.

I've had girls attracted to me even when knowing my trans status which other people started screaming about saying I must be a girl (I even have facial hair). So the idea that cis hets can't EVER be attracted to us is a lie.

Basically I don't trust anyone else's opinion on this. We are people. This is not Build-A-Date. Learn to communicate like an adult. Not every trans person has the same set of equipment.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago (7 children)

I think what they idea is- and I'm not saying I agree because I'm frankly undecided on this- even if you're attracted to someone, that doesn't mean you want a sexual relationship with them and since dating often leads to a sexual relationship, basic details where sex may be involved should be made clear up front on a dating site.

Again, I'm not saying I agree here. You could easily argue that it's up to the couple to work that out before they get intimate.

load more comments (7 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago

I understand the danger of revealing trans status. I also understand that it can be even more dangerous to be discovered as trans after a relationship develops with a partner who is violently transphobic. Back in the 80's I was in the Navy. One of the guys on my ship was arrested for attempted murder. The woman he was dating didn't reveal she was trans and he found out when they became intimate. He threw her off a second story balcony after beating her.

My question is why anyone would want to initiate a relationship with another person unless their prospective partner was accepting of them? I'd at least bring up the subject in an indirect manner to judge their response.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 9 months ago

Idk, retusing to date someone based on their race does seem pretty racist to me. I know it's not the point of the post but like... It's murky moral territory.

You can't help who/what your attracted to, true. Even if it might be defined by subconscious prejudice, that might not necessarily be something you can change, totally. But having that conversation... It's gonna be hurtful, yeah? I think if you have that kinda preference the only easy way to accommodate it is by you advertising it in a general way.

Which only really works for dating apps, the absolute worst way to meet people.

Also, not a big deal, but it's best to put a space between 'trans' and 'men/'women'. It's an adjective. They are trans, they are men/women. 'Transmen' and 'transwomen' makes it seem like you're designating them seperately.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

Fuck I'm trans and I agree with you

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (6 children)

How the hell does this have so many downvotes? Surely not from the crowd that preaches consent and freedom of choice?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago

Nah I'm guessing because it's a popular opinion

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] [email protected] -1 points 9 months ago (2 children)

You don't date trans women because you are a bigot.

I don't date trans women because I have a menstruation fetish. We are not the same.

Disclaimer: this is a joke. I have been in a relationship with a trans woman.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 9 months ago

I have been in a relationship with a trans woman.

Was she hot? Did you have hot sex? Was there video? Answer the third question first.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago

did you two try doing menstruation rp

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

No one actually does this.

Do you think trans woman WANT to date someone who isnt into them? No. Stop being cringe.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

You say this but it's been a problem for myself and friends dating. After talking for a while I find out somehow and then they're all like "this isn't how I wanted you to find out!" Uh, how about being honest and upfront and letting me give informed consent?

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago

I'm genderfluid and I agree with you. Cis people shouldn't be tricked, manipulated or emotionally blackmailed into copulating with us just because we want a partner. Partners do have the right to know whether we're cis, trans or nonbinary.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago

Wow, first of all, no one cares if you put cis in your "looking for". God it must be so hard for straight people to exist/ sarcasm.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Doubt you’ve even ever met a trans woman. We don’t want to sleep with you either.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago

I’m a trans lesbian and it sounds like you spend more time thinking about fucking trans women than I do

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Literally no one is actually being victimized by any of this.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (5 children)

Who, exactly, is saying that having a sexual preference is bigoted? I've heard rumors about this argument, but never encountered it in the wild.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago

Look at the apps, most these days will not permit you to exclude trans from your criteria

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Personally, I have encountered in an odd situation. Gay dating app, trans woman being friendly, so I was friendly back, but told her I wasn't interested. She went ballistic, saying how I could live the dream, have a straight looking relationship, that surely a masc guy like me wanted that, and that I could still get dick with her, and when I told her that was not what I was looking for, at all, she went into the rant, calling me transphobic and saying that I was discriminating her.

I just blocked her and I will never be entirely sure if it was a troll or not.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

That's the reverse situation though, isn't it? You treated her as a woman and said "no thanks, I'm gay" and she responded with "it's ok, because I have a dick and am basically a man". Didn't she just transphobia herself?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

Literally nobody is saying this. OP is just doing a transpanic.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

The who in question is a man made of straw

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Admittedly it's been a few years but I had this argument on Reddit and caught a ban from a handful of subs for hate speech for arguing that not wanting a trans partner was not the same thing as being anti trans.

I don't remember my exact phrasing, I did then and still do believe that trans rights are human rights, that trans people are in real danger at no fault of their own, and that their healthcare is important and should start early. But that doesn't mean I can be attracted to someone I know is trans, and I think that being trans should be divulged in a relationship, and divulged early.

That's a viewpoint that some, and I use the term lightly, radical activists don't want to hear, and will absolutely accuse you of transphobia. That doesn't mean it's common, or that the community at large agrees with it. But there are individuals who espouse that nonsense.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago

Reddit is full of two things. Bigots of every variety and bots. Don’t take social media of any sort as a reflection of reality, it’s not. So much of it is bots designed to create social division now. Then the bigots come out to reply to the bots.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments
view more: ‹ prev next ›