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Can she really do that, force the jury without security clearance to view top secret documents? Seems bullshit to me.
But what are the options? Obviously she says to let Trump go if the jury can't see the docs. If he gets the jury see the docs, do they have to get security clearance? They have to sign an NDA of some sort?
I sort of think that showing them the secrets would actively harm Trump because it would become obvious just how dangerous the material is. I don't think she's really thought this thing through.
Is the gambit here that they weren't actually that bad?
No, I think that they are actually that bad. I also think that the judge is dumb enough to have actually now placed these super important documents in the hands of 12 jurors plus some alternates in an effort to bow to her orange master. My take: she's not actually that smart but thinks she is and she thinks she just did a "gotcha". I believe that a jury seeing them would be shocked at what was left in a bathroom for anyone to steal.
Genuine question - do we know enough to know these were that bad?
I'd definitely believe what you're saying too but curious how much we know about the contents.
Edit: lol at the downvotes, lemmy
do we know enough to know these were that bad?
We do: Trump is facing a criminal trial over them. They wouldn't be classified if they weren't sensitive.
I truly underestimated how deep the movement that's using Trump's cult of personality for its own means runs.
We're so very fucked.
Jury selection will take forever… Step 1, reject everybody without a security clearance…
Unfortunately we're too close to the election at this point. I don't see any case that isn't just a monetary settlement being delt with before he takes office and makes his DOJ dog wipe it all away....
NY criminal case regarding the Stormy Daniels hush money should start next month.
Its also the weakest case, most inconsequential, and puts Trump at no real risk. And even in that case, the judge and da seem willing to bend over for him.
Showing TOP SECRET and HIGHER documents to random people on the street HELPS American National Security!
It's unprecedented. I know what the supporters would say "so is prosecuting an ex president ". There's a difference. A fast food CEO killing a dozen people and serving them up in 15 different locations is unprecedented. A judge wouldn't say that the jury has to try the burgers though.
Either “a jury is permitted to examine” every record a former president swipes and claims as “personal” to determine whether it is, or jurors must be told that “a president has sole authority… to categorize records as personal or presidential during his/her presidency.”
Can't categorize files as personal after you vacate office. Classified files are by law government property and cannot be owned by anyone. Can't declassify files after leaving office.
This hack needs to be impeached and this trial appealed and the judge replaced posthaste.
and you can't just handwave classification away. There is a legal process involve.
The government doesn't really do consequences for conservatives to well.
"Hey random person! How's about you read this document and tell me if it sounds Top Secret."
"Okay, but in your uninformed opinion, is this document one or two levels more secret than those other declassified files?"
Judge: ignore any markings on the filed indicating top secret, classified, human intelligence, and make your own decisions on each file!
Another option for the prosecution is to redact classified info. It doesn't actually matter what is in the document, just that it's classified because a former President is disallowed to possess classified material.
For more info: classified documents have extensive ~~markets~~ markings. The header and footer of every page with material is marked either, Unclassified (if present in docs with higher), CUI, Secret, Top Secret, etc. In addition, the document will have markings for each paragraph on if that particular paragraph or line contains classified material and at what level. So the prosecution could definitely just redact everything above Unclassified and the remainder of the text should paint a fairly clear picture of what the document contains without revealing specific classified details.
Of course this treasonous judge would probably interpret as you did because she belongs behind bars not a bench.___
Playing a bit of devil's advocate.
We have a tendency to over classify things in general. When I was in a TS SCIF, we would mark things S/TS because we were lazy and didn't want to go through the process to see if something was subject to disclosure.
Assuming, with a great heaping serving of salt, that there is validity to Trump's claim, I can sort of understand putting to a jury to see if the files that Trump took were in fact classified. I can see him stealing the documents simply because it had a cover sheet and not because it was valuable. While I'm sure that he absolutely took sensitive and classified information, I'm equally sure that there is probably a take out menu or two in those boxes.
The problem is that the run of the mill citizen isn't equipped to properly classify a document. I don't know what probative value exists in giving the documents to jurors outside of forcing the prosecution to put them in the public record.
Jurors provide no value beyond the markings even if they are over-classified. I mean I guess you could beat out the security classification guides and a derivative classification course... But even so, the president is only an OCA while in office so the point is kinda moot. I don't think the specific document content matters, just whether or not updated SCG exists with same content, yeah?
Basically, "this line is referencing this item in the guide, the guide still says classified, ergo this is a spill".
classified documents have extensive markets
The markets for these ones were Saudi Arabia, Russia, and maybe China.
Lol. Damn Freud up in my typos.
Face it, you want to fuck classified documents, which are also your mother.
Yo pops, that's a real nice dong you got there. Sure would be a shame if something were to happen to it.