Ask Lemmy

It's inappropriate to approach women in public unless you have business with them."

What are you Amish?

You are wrong. Yeah times have changed, but not so much that you can't just fucking talk to someone. Say hi, strike up a conversation, whatever, and trust that anyone who doesn't want to talk will say so. The important thing when that happens is to listen to them and leave them alone.

I think you're both a little right. Yeah, they grew up in a world where it was generally more socially acceptable to approach strange women on the street than it is today. But that doesn't mean that you're never allowed to do it, either.

I think it'd be good to takeaway a bit of both arguments. Yes, you shouldn't harass women on the street, but also it's totally fine to talk to women as long as you're respectful and take the hint if they're not interested.

dont talk to anyone. eyes glued to the floor. no smiling. in fact, never leave your house ever again.

Just learn to talk to all people in social situations, and don't make it transactional.

The right people will just drop into your life naturally.

You are both right and you’re both wrong.

I’m right in the middle of yours and your parents age. The dating scene is complete shit today compared to when your parents were in it. I don’t believe they’re likely recognizing how different shit is today vs 30-40 years ago.

I feel like the viewpoint you’re coming from is calculated, safe and fairly accurate for the experiences you’ve likely had in your teen years and early 20’s. More often than not, sticking with what you’ve been doing is going to be considered the more socially graceful, generally appropriate baseline behavior in today’s dating world.

If you were to take the opposite approach, and approach women in places that you’ve previously considered socially unacceptable, there’s a good chance you’d have some success and a good chance you’d deal with some awkward rejections too.

If I were you, I’d try putting myself outside of my comfort zone a couple of times, maybe a city two hours away from where you live. If you’re into anime or comics, go to a con and approach women you’d be uncomfortable approaching otherwise. If you’re into reading at all, go to a bookstore and do this. Everyone needs to eat, supposedly the grocery store is fair game.

Do some social experimenting. Safer to figure out things a bit away from home though if you’re nervous.

I'm with your parents on this one. It's not hard to talk to someone without harassing them. Obviously you have to be mindful of the context of the situation.

• You're at a party and attempt to strike up a friendly conversation with someone? Totally fine

• You see an attractive stranger walking on the street and you stop them to ask them out? Not ok

Obviously there are loads of gray areas in between, but you can't just start with the premise that talking to a woman is harassment.

So, this is one of the unfortunate traps of our time, especially if you live in a place with car dependent sprawl. Women don't want to be solicited while at work or on personal business (groceries, gym, etc), and, really, nobody does. You want to work at work, and you want to do your business and go home otherwise. This goes doubly or triply so for complete strangers. There's really no third places (as they're called) left, where people go for the express purpose of being social and together. That's what's missing here. As someone else said, you are, unfortunately, both a little right.

It's particularly bad in places like the US that have car dependent sprawl because

• cities often have had their zoning ordinances weaponized by NIMBYs, and it's probably outright illegal to have a small cafe or shop in your neighborhood, or they're required to have some outrageous parking minimum or something like that.

• driving sucks more than you may be aware of while you're doing it. If you have to get into your car to go to the grocery, you don't want to make five stops at smaller grocers throughout the week; you'd rather just make one big stop at the big box mart and just go tf home. If you want to stop at a cafe, well, just swing through the starbucks drive through so you don't have to be bothered with getting out.

Well, chances are that most of your interactions at chain businesses and stores are anonymous, so you're not meeting other people in your community there, you're not creating any bonds or relationships there, you're doing your business and getting out, which, frankly, is what they want. You're especially not making any friends in the drive thru line. For nearly seventy years now, we've built our cities to be homes to cars, not people, and it's bearing fruit in the form of the loneliness epidemic.

My advice to you would be to go out of your way to find situations where people are getting together for the purpose of being social or having fun. Look for classes put on by your local city parks, go check your local library's bulletin board for events, check social media communities for your nearby city or town for groups that meet regularly. If you're religious, seek out some religious institutions that you find palatable.

Think the best advice is that when you talk to a woman in public you should have a reason besides her being a woman in public. Like if a man approached me because he thought my shirt looked cool or he saw me reading a book he liked that's a fine bit of casual conversation. If he just point blank asked if I had a boyfriend as if that's the only reason a woman wouldn't want to date a random man she knows nothing about I'd tell him that was none of his business.

Youre right that there are social rules saying you shouldn't. But when you're confident and have social skills you can break the rules.

If you trust yourself to have the social intelligence to pickup on signs of disinterest or irritation then go for it. Start with a casual chat and have 0 expectations. You'll feel if its right to ask for their number.

If you know you dont have good social skills then just play it safe and find some mixed groups and just try make friends with as many people as possible.

Have times changed? Yes. Do you need to approach women? Yes. Don't hide behind a screen. Get out there and talk with women.

Talking with people is not disrespectful. God, what a sad society is that?

There's a saying that goes something like, "Enlarge your territory, linger in public, walk through open doors." That's a good start. Get out of the house and linger in public places. Strike up conversations and be a social animal. Talk with everyone: men, women, young, old - get that practice in. If you talk with everyone, then you're not putting as much pressure on yourself. Don't get attached to an outcome, but challenge yourself to talk to people.

I think you're making excuses. I strike conversations with strangers all the time, including women. I go dancing for swing, salsa, bachata. You wanna see something that challenges your beliefs on interactions between men and women? Go watch Bachata.

But anyway. Social skills are a skill and they need to be worked. Put yourself out there and get rejected. (You'll learn it's not so bad).

Context matters a lot, which means you need to put yourself out there in the right context to meet someone. Examples: trivia night at the local bar, or a book club, or a local live music show. Most women aren't gonna be interested if you approach them while they're just living their lives grocery shopping or at the gym* or something - that's not a social context. (*Unless you're regulars at the gym and run into each other and chitchat all the time, but I'm assuming you're not in that kind of situation.)

Once you're in the right context, and you see a woman you're interested in, start by very casually talking to her, and keep an eye out for signs of interest (e.g., turning in their seat toward you which indicates they're giving the conversation real attention, or moving the conversation forward by making jokes or asking follow-up questions) or disinterest (e.g., one word answers with no follow-up engagement, turning their body away from you, mentioning a boyfriend). If you see signs of disinterest, just stop and let her be. But if you see signs of interest, continue the conversation. Don't be too needy, don't come on too strong, let the conversation breathe. And for godsake don't buy her drinks, it's cheesy and puts too much pressure on a new situation. Especially don't buy her a drink without even asking her first, it's pushy and I can't speak for all women, but I fucking hate that. Ask her about herself, for example her interests. Try to get a gauge on whether you're attracted to her on more than a physical level. If you have nothing in common, or you think she's boring or annoying, there's no sense in moving forward. But if there seems to be commonality and interest, keep the conversation going! If one of you is leaving, tell her you're glad you ran into her that night and ask if you can give her your number (or email address or social media, whatever young people do, I'm middle-aged so I don't know). But the important thing is that you're offering her something rather than asking her for something. This means she can say no, or if she says yes, she still has the choice on whether or not to follow up with you. It puts the control in her hands which can make her feel more safe.

Good luck, I hear it's rough out there for folks your age.