this post was submitted on 22 Feb 2025
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No Stupid Questions

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The title's a bit disingenuous, I know: this didn't come out of nowhere. White supremacism is as American as Manifest Destiny and has been heavily intertwined with Nazism from its inception. That overlap with the Republican party, and their gradual slip into the extreme far-right, is evident.

But Seig Heils? Even the most dense among them must know that blatant Nazism hurts their legitimacy in the eyes of the public, even among MAGATs (as is evident right now if you peek at their echo chamber on Reddit). Surely they would have a much easier time pushing their rhetoric and establishing their agenda by keeping a purposeful distance from that sort of indefensible imagery and symbolism. How do they expect to keep cohesion in the military when you imply to the soldiers that they are Nazis now, seig heils and all.

Why Nazis?

Any theories as to where this is coming from? Follow the ketamine-fueled leader? A directive for operative Krasnov, from Putin himself, to implode the country? True Nazi beliefs among the Heritage Foundation, Proud Boys, etc? I just don't understand how they thought this would fly. I don't understand anything anymore lol.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 day ago (5 children)

Just a lack of Nazi hunters.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 day ago

They wrote a nazi manifesto, it got reported on widely, they barely denied it and they won anyway.

Nothing that is happening on their end is the slightest bit unexpected, so I'm just isolating myself from America and Americans as much as I can until I don't get a choice. However, when I see things like this post by accident I do feel a remarkable urge to grab anybody who expresses disappointment or surprise and shake them by the lapels until they pass out.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 day ago

People become less hospitable in economic downturns, remember the original Nazis exploited that in the Versailles hit Weimar.

[–] [email protected] 47 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Nazis didn't come around all of a sudden, either. People have always, on the whole, been horrible. What changes is what is culturally acceptable to talk about.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

I knew this was coming after 9/11/2001. That was my first brush with how absolutely vile, ignorant, and racist most US citizens could be.

I used to always say eventually they would bring the tools of the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars home and use against their own citizens and god damn it, it sucks to be right.

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[–] [email protected] 168 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

The fact that the salute is so offensive, they did it so blatantly, and their denial was so disingenuous is the point. It's a demonstration of power. They can do a Nazi salute and their opponents can't punish them. They can deny that they did a Nazi salute and their opponents can't control the narrative. If they did something more subtle, then people might think that they weren't facing any consequences because their opponents were giving them the benefit of the doubt. With the Nazi salute there is no doubt. The only explanation for why they aren't facing any consequences is that their opponents are powerless.

[–] [email protected] 62 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I wish I could find it now, but there was a quote attributed to someone suffering under an oppressive regime which would blatantly lie, and yet it remained accepted: “The lie is the insult.”

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 day ago

we're in the end stages of a campaign by assholes to overthrow our deomocracy.

It's been getting waged for decades. they've been doing this shit for years, behind closed doors and they now feel comfortable with being nazis in public.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 day ago

It wasn't sudden, this shit's been muddying the waters for a decade and the precursors were seeping in for another decade or more before that.

[–] [email protected] 66 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

What you're seeing is the end of Truth.

Especially in the face of AI generated photos, we're dealing with a future where the youth can easily be misled about what actually happened in the past, or even in the current moment. There is very much an upswing of young people questioning established narratives of the past, often under the guise of "well you weren't there, how do you know for sure?"

Reality is perception, and they are busy managing reality to deny any perception of Nazi behavior.

It's why Musk especially lies so fluidly and easily in the face of hard evidence.

It's all perception management, and as long as they keep talking and keep repeating the same lies, a significant number of people will believe them.

Musk still claims it wasn't a Nazi salute, and a significant number of people believe him. It's kind of like Trump's statement that he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th avenue and not lose any support. It's all attack, never back down, never admit fault.

EDIT: It's also Bannon's "flood the zone with shit" strategy at work, too. We've been in an Attention Economy for a long time now (at least since 2007 when the iPhone put a screen in everyone's pocket), and they know people's attention is limited, so they work to force themselves into people's limited time and attention spans. If your message is the only one they have time to hear, they'll probably be more likely to consider yours true. This, for example, is why Musk forced himself into everyone's Twitter feeds, he's force feeding himself the limited attention of millions.

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[–] [email protected] 90 points 1 day ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (10 children)

They've been doing Zeig Heils for years.

I wish I could find the documentary, about a woman who dated some alt right weirdo and he started taking her to like Turning Point USA meetings and other groups meetings and she describes how the first time she did Zeig Heils, and they just did this shit like it was normal. She describes going to a book burning, thinking it was a joke, and then it was like an actual book burning.

It's all nudge nudge wink wink. They're doing Nazi salute because they are Nazis.

Edit: Believe the documentary is called "White Right: Meeting the Enemy." Available here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ0rhh5mbnA

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Curious to hear more about this documentary

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[–] [email protected] 55 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Makes me think of my younger days hanging out on 4chan, thinking I was having ironic, satirical laughs with my fellow anons until eventually realizing most of them actually believed what they were saying

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