this post was submitted on 27 Feb 2024
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Science Memes

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(page 4) 45 comments
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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

The existence of the bottom track would imply an infinite density of people, which would create a black hole and kill everyone involved, regardless of the trolley's presence

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

If the tracks are scaled to the same unit (presumably one where one human width equals an infinitely small number), everyone in the top track would die of exposure before the trolley even reaches its first victim due to there being infinite distance between integer milestones, whereas everyone in the bottom track would be killed instantly due to any distance traveled having an infinite number of infinitesimals*. So I choose the bottom track to be merciful.

If the tracks don't share the same scale then we don't have enough information to make a judgment.

* Even though we already established the one human width rule. Could someone check my logic here? Infinities break my brain.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Slip the switch, like always

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Has anyone tried just asking the trolley to stop?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Or trying to understand its instead desire to kill?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

It has tasted blood, it's too late to reason with it

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Some infinities are bigger than others but those are both the same sized infinity, ℵ₀. Same if you multi-track drift.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This comment section is politics in action! :-P

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

If you want to be a true masochist, you could re-run the experiment on Reddit - hurk 🤮.

The beauty of Lemmy is that here we can at least talk about such neat things:-).

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Pull the lever. Save as many lives as you can and hope that someone that now wasn't killed as fast can help come up with a solution for the runaway trolley.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

i'd ask for a second train.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I know many people despise generative AI, but what do you think of this result from Copilot? I am bad at maths so I wonder if you experts can tell.

In your scenario, you have two sets: the integers on the top track and the real numbers on the bottom track. The cardinality of the integers is equal to the cardinality of the real numbers, which is called the continuum hypothesis. Therefore, it seems intuitively more ethical to pull the lever and divert the trolley to the bottom track, where you kill fewer people in any finite time.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

I'm sure if I tried to rephrase the problem getting every detail wrong, I'd do a worse job than this.

But I'd change the number of tracks.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

it seems intuitively more ethical to pull the lever and divert the trolley to the bottom track,

not an expert but the integer one is at the top i think

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's completely wrong within ZF set theory the cardinality of the integers is stricly smaller than the cardinality of the real numbers. The continuum hypothesis states that there is no set with a cardinality strictly larger than the natural numbers (or integers) and strictly smaller than the real numbers.

It accidentally kind of comes to the right conclusion, but even the conclusion isn't really correct, you don't need to be concerned with finite time since integers are a smaller cardinality.

Let's say people can be placed on a point on the track indexed by the real numbers, given any two seperate, finite, points, there would be more people packed between those two points than the entire integer track.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Assuming that it takes some amount of energy to kill one person, and that the trolley doesn't have an engine with infinite power, choosing the bottom track would save lives. The trolley would have to expend an infinite amount of energy to move any distance from the starting point, so it would just get stuck there while trying to crush the unimaginable amount of people bunched up in front of it.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I would question the ability to line people up on a railroad track such that they have a 1:1 correspondence with the real numbers.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Arbitrary precision engineering

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

It's totally doable because they are real people.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, for any length of track, you would need to stack infinite people...

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

If we are already dealing with infinities of peoples then we can deal just as easily with infinities of tracks. I just struggle to see what kind of power source the trolly uses to plow through that many people.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

An infinity cube, of course

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We have nuclear subs, why not nuclear trollies?

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

It’s powered by screams.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I would take a sledgehammer and smash the trolley to bits, thus solving the problem and saving infinite number of lives. There's always another option available.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Multi-track drifting, baby. Double infinite.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I get that the answer is supposed to be "it doesn't matter" but if you take time into account, it actually fucking does, and also makes it hugely obvious what the actual answer is.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

from the picture this is true but from the statement alone both options are identical

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Shit man if there's an infinite amount of people there must also be an infinite amount of track. So forget philosophy, I'm getting rich!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Fuck you Ayn Rand! I’m the railroad magnate now!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Invent a new number system that provides aneven smaller infinity

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

People die faster if you do nothing, so doing nothing seems like the obvious choice

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

The trolley goes at infinite speed after the branch point. What's your outside the box answer now?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Then you have a choice to do nothing and allow people die, or do a conscious choice to kill people. There's something for everyone, everyone wins (except the people on rails)

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

which size infinite speed we talkin’? if its faster than light then maybe we got ourselves a time travel trolley 😎

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Join them on the rail

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Halfway through the branch point pull the lever to derail the trolley?

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I take the square root of the negative trolley, then use my imaginary streetcar to establish a complex track so I can start killing in an additional dimension.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (3 children)
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