this post was submitted on 23 Jan 2025
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TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name

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Oops all Mushrooms (lemmy.world)
submitted 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
 

And always gonna be. Go cry about it some more

(page 3) 50 comments
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[–] [email protected] 19 points 3 months ago (5 children)

Remember when TOS had magic wand worms?

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago (7 children)

Everything except that one line about elon musk.

But in generall the concept of canon is completly overated. Like these are stories that are up to interpretation they not real. You can do what ever you want with that.

Its kind of interesting to see how some of those anti woke types loose their shit over this. (not just)

Anyways I can recommend jessie gender after dark's video on this subject relatong to trek

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[–] [email protected] 75 points 3 months ago (28 children)

It isn't the mushroom drive that made Discovery bad, it's that Starfleet apparently no longer has any kind of standards.

TOS and TNG had all kinds of "woke" politics for their era, but they portrayed them as happening on a military vessel. People were calm, competent and followed the chain of command. The only time that broke down is when they were under the influence of some kind of alien disease or tech.

Discovery's crew was full of whiny, fragile people that were barely able to do their jobs for all the time they spent obsessing about their personal problems. Tilly is the prime example of this. The "Tilly" equivalent in TNG was Reginald Barclay. Shy, stressed, lacking self confidence, etc. Barclay's character arc makes sense for Star Trek. He is able to save the day, but he's certainly not promoted because it's clear that the senior officers on the show are calm, competent and project confidence. He's basically there to show that not all Star Trek characters are the confident, competent, brave people who make up the bridge crew. And, by doing that they emphasize how elite the bridge crew is. Meanwhile, on Discovery, Tilly is promoted and keeps gaining responsibility despite never addressing these gaping character flaws. The "Tilly" message seems to be something like "it doesn't matter if you're weird, awkward and unable to communicate competently, as long as you love and accept yourself, you too deserve to be on the bridge making life or death decisions".

Discovery also fails because that lack of competence is everywhere in the crew. The original shows had the crew acting as... well a crew. They'd tackle problems together. In TOS Kirk would lead the charge, but he'd never do anything on his own. Spock was stronger and smarter than anybody else, but he followed the lead of his commander. McCoy handled the medical stuff. Scotty handled engineering. In Discovery, Burnham is apparently the only competent person on the crew, and the only one not to be fazed when something bad happens, so rather than the crew working together to solve issues, it's superhero Burnham while the crew faints dramatically. The only real exceptions to that are Saru (whose personality doesn't really make sense given what they explain about his species), and Commander Reno, who is a breath of fresh air because she's basically the only one who isn't constantly freaking out -- although the sarcasm and fatalism of her character is almost too much.

What makes it all worse is that the backdrop is that the universe is doomed and only Discovery can save it. Sure, the other Treks have had major threats to the universe, but they were being slow-rolled over a long season, or sometimes multiple seasons. They had room to breathe and do episodes that didn't advance the plot. That gave them a time to do episodes focused on fleshing out the personality of a member of the crew, to do silly things, etc. Discovery has the whiniest, least professional crew that has ever crewed a starship (and I'm including Boimler and friends), who are whining while dealing with the most urgent apocalyptic scenarios. It's a soap opera while the end of the world is playing out.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 3 months ago (1 children)

This might hurt your bones a bit:

MOOPSY IS CANON TOO

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (3 children)

If Lower Decks added multiverses then anything can be canon or not canon according to the viewer's preference! Want a multiverse that's the same but Discovery doesn't exist? Okay, that's the multiverse whatever show is set in until such time as they explicitly bring it up.

That's how infinite realities work!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

So let me get this straight. You’re saying there’s a reality in which we’re all sitting in the holodeck of the Enterprise-D right now, debating the canonicity of the prophetic Discovery show produced hundreds of years earlier, while eating Gorgon soup with our hotdog fingers?

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago (2 children)

lol did you forget that you already posted this?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Honestly, yes. I have so much stuff that I post that sometimes I don't update the tags properly and forget that I have already posted it. My mistake. That being said, was a while ago so meh.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago

And it seems to have generated quite a bit of discussion already anyway

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Obviously didn't get the reaction they were looking for.

OR.

Got exactly the reaction they were looking for and wanted more of it.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Alternatively, and accurately, I post constantly and have thousands of things to sort through and occasionally a double post happens.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago

Sure, that's what you WANT us to believe. I'm not falling for the narrative given by BIG-Stamets. This was an inside job. Rocket votes don't melt steel posts.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Don't care. Still ignoring it exists.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago

the real chad

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 months ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 25 points 3 months ago (2 children)
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[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

You can keep the shrooms as long as I get to keep the Catians.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago (3 children)

I haven't yet seen the last season of Lower Decks, but apparently they make the claim that Discovery was set in an alternate universe.

https://cosmicbook.news/star-trek-discovery-erased-canon
https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/star-trek-erased.html

Again, I can't validate that, but have read those articles

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Who's to say that episode wasn't from a multi verse branch and isn't canon itself? (It's a stretch, and I haven't seen the episode yet)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Honestly... you're sort of right without knowing it. Wrong but right. It's hard to explain. You'll get it when you see it.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago

Without any more knowledge, but knowing lower decks, I understand completely.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago (1 children)

That just seems like an intentional misinterpretation from someone who wants Discovery to be as non-canon as possible.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago

That's very possible

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I watched the episode. They didn't erase it. They clearly weren't paying attention.

The Klingons in our world evolved and look different from DSC onwards. The ones in the timeline they shifted to, do not. Simple as that. Made fairly clear with the other stuff about a Klingon sailing barge and what have you.

More whiny people just whining.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

People do love to wine about Discovery, so that's not surprising. Thanks for the clarification. I do need to get onto watching the last LD season.

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[–] [email protected] 50 points 3 months ago (5 children)

People who whine about the silliness of some of the concepts in Discovery (spore drive, space-tardigrades) have never seen TOS.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Don't mind me. I'm just thinking about the time Voyager had to battle a plague of giant viruses.

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 3 months ago (4 children)

While I do generally enjoy discovery, I do think It's still pretty flawed. Not because of the spore stuff, but because of the way that they have to deal with so many "danger to the entire galaxy/universe/multiverse" type events back to back. Like, doing a few is fine, I generally enjoyed the xindi arc in Enterprise for example, but having so many starts to feel very forced after awhile.

I especially find that bit with the spore energy extractor in the mirror universe that could kill all life in the multiverse if not stopped jarring, because, if you have a potentially limitlessness number of alternative timelines, and the massive expanse of space, to develop that tech in, the odds that nobody else ever built one of these drops to essentially zero, except that the existence of the plot at all implies nobody else ever has.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Not because of the spore stuff, but because of the way that they have to deal with so many “danger to the entire galaxy/universe/multiverse” type events back to back. Like, doing a few is fine, I generally enjoyed the xindi arc in Enterprise for example, but having so many starts to feel very forced after awhile.

I totally agree. When the stakes are over the top it makes the universe feel small. When everything depends on one crew at all times it feels hard to believe there is a larger world they exist in in which to immerse my imagination. Discovery has fantastic characters, acting, directing, costumes, sets - I would love to see all these great features thrive without leaning on artificial plot tension. The main goal of any show is to make you care about what happens. Ideally you care because you feel a personal connection to the characters. But making the stakes huge, and including frequent ticking-clock scenarios is easier. The thing is I do care about these characters! The artifice is unnecessary!

But it got better the longer the show went on! I appreciate how every season the stakes got smaller, and more believable, and the pacing got less frantic especially in the last two seasons.

spoilers: de-escalating stakes each season

  • season 1: The entire Klingon war, and btw the existence of every possible universe is threatened.
  • season 2: All life is about to be wiped out, but only in one universe.
  • season 3: Is the Federation over? It's not clear if the dilithium crisis extends to other galaxies, but the stakes seem to be scoped to geopolitics in one quadrant.
  • season 4: Several planets are in danger. Still bigger stakes than I'd prefer, but there is much improvement over season 1.
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[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago

That's how I felt reading the Batman new 52 run. It was just constant city-wide crises with escalating stakes. Just foil a bank robbery or something now and then ffs.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago

I thought we all agreed that canon doesn’t start until the Wrath of Khan.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago

They berate an exam table ffs

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