this post was submitted on 21 Dec 2024
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I have been thinking a lot since the election about what could explain the incredibly high numbers of Americans who seem incapable of critical thinking, or really any kind of high level rational thought or analysis.

Then I stumbled on this post https://old.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/16ires5/lead_exposure_from_shooting_is_a_much_more/

Which essentially explains that “Shooting lead bullets at firing ranges results in elevated BLLs at concentrations that are associated with a variety of adverse health outcome"

I looked at the pubmed abstract in that Reddit post and also this one https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5289032/

Which states, among other things, “Workers exposed to lead often show impaired performance on neurobehavioral test involving attention, processing, speed, visuospatial abilities, working memory and motor function. It has also been suggested that lead can adversely affect general intellectual performance.”

Now, given that there are well in excess of 300 million guns in the United States, is it possible lead exposure at least partially explains how brain dead many Americans seem to be?

This is a genuine question not a troll and id love to read some evidence to the contrary if any is available

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I see where you are going, but you probably should focus less on the guns. Most Americans don't regularly shoot guns, even those that have them. A whole lot also don't own any. But lead is all over in shit like water pipes. Other heavy metals and chemicals are present in higher levels than allowed elsewhere. Also full metal jacket is much more common than it used to be which reduces the lead particles when shooting.

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[–] [email protected] 187 points 1 day ago (9 children)

My aunt spent a long time working in education in the USA, much of it in leadership roles. When she incorporated lessons on critical thinking into the curriculum, it resulted in a lot of pushback from parents who did not appreciate their kids applying the lessons at home.

People who actively resist the use of critical thinking will seem cognitively impaired because they are, in fact intentionally impairing their cognition. My intuition here is to blame religious fundamentalism, but that's not a well-researched position.

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[–] [email protected] 90 points 1 day ago (9 children)

Most Americans don't even own guns. A minority of Americans own lots of guns.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (6 children)

Before trump, I'd have agreed with this. After trump, it's now increasing at an incredible rate. It was like 32% owned a firearm. Latest pew from this year is 40%. Now with trump back in power, I'm betting you will see us hit 50% or nearly 50%.

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[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 day ago (7 children)

And like 9 out of 10 people who own guns go to the range less than a few times a year.

More than half of gun owners have never gone to a range beyond what might have been part of a state's pistol permitting process.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

"you're brain dead, you've got aalmost as much lead as a motherfuckin bullet in ya head."

I doubt it's the main cause, widespread cultural phenomena are normally mostly generated by social interactions (words) and reinforcement, and demagogues (or so they often over-claim).

Poison like that will impact a fairly small proportion and takes a long time to impact and spread. Seems unlikey to be anything major. Besides which many more sources of lead poisoning from paint and leaded petrol, and water pipes and stuff - not specifiic to US and not specific to guns.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

I built a machine that pics up discharged round from the end of the shooting range. They had to wear so much protective gear to run this machine and were under strict regulations from the government. I had no idea how dangerous shooting ranges were.

[–] [email protected] 66 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Post reads like some violently uninformed person making a lot of... I don't want to say racist cuz that's not really right, but similar sentiments about Americans

Y'all are stupid cuz of your guns

Is about as stupid a thought as possible as you're you're claiming we are because of shooting guns and the fact that anyone in the comments is taking it seriously shows y'all have the exact same level of critical thinking skills as those you're insulting

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Y'all are stupid cuz of your guns

Yeah, in this case he's got it completely backwards.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Y'all are guns cuz of your stupid

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 day ago

That's a very interesting hypothesis. For sure it affects it and there might be other chemicals that get combusted as well. Not sure if the quantity is the same as with leaded gasoline and I'm pretty sure the proportion of Americans that go to shooting ranges on a regular basis is pretty small. Interesting post regardless

[–] [email protected] 64 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Was the majority of the German voting public lead-poisoned in the 30s? I don't think lead was even put in gas then. Those Germans almost certainly were not lead poisoned, and they put a monster into power.

I get wanting a good explanation, but in reality, it's a simple but unsatisfying explanation. It applies to every country and every population in every era. People are fuckin' stupid. Carlin said it best:

"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I dislike this saying because it's always been assumed, never proven, that intelligence follows a normal distribution. That is if it can even be mapped to a single, consistent, comparable number.

But your point is valid. Though I'd add that it's not universally true. Fascists thrive on fear and ignorance. Give people access to a good education, which includes political education, and they are far more resilient to these tactics.

Which is why it's especially nefarious that conservatives love to undermine, vilify, and defund education.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 day ago (2 children)

The German population went through serious economic troubles. Wheelbarrows of cash to buy stuff. Economically troubled people get angry and revolt, and in democratic systems that means firstly voting for the extreme candidates, the ones with a good story. Anger shuts down critical thinking and they don't think about other consequences of their vote.

That's how many elections went in a lot of counties in the last few years too.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

Right, but that’s where the analogy breaks down “wheelbarrows of cash”. You can try to reference that situation, you can try to talk about desperate people just wanting to lash out but no one is pushing around “wheelbarrows of cash”. Whatever desperate situation people think they are in pales before the reality. The huge difference in severity means they are hardly comparable at all. By pretty much any stat, we should be doing ok: there have been many times we’ve had it worse, so why is this the moment?

This is where the last couple decades of hatred and divisiveness come in. Politicians bringing forth blame, scapegoats, stoking outrage at our problems. The hatred is always there. The violence is always there. Were conditions to a constant state of anger so that’s where too many turn for even a minor downturn

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Yeah, I get that saying people are fuckin stupid is dismissive and over simplified in a lot of cases... But it's also still true and a factor, which adds to all the other factors you're talking about. Ultimately I think if people were more educated and intelligent, they could overcome a lot of irrationality.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 day ago

It's deliberate. The right wing has been gradually whittling down the quality of our education system for more than a generation.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I got curious; looks like leaded fuel was first introduced in the 1920s.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago

Interesting. Though I can't say when Germany added it. I believe the 20s was when America started doing it, but according to a podcast I listened to recently, America was the first to start doing it. And also the effects of lead poisoning take decades to manifest.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 day ago

Some of us were around when leaded gasoline was the norm, and every municipality had a crime rate drop that corellates to their unleaded gas mandate.

Then there's lead in candy which was a problem until the FDA shut that down.

There still is lead in fuel, and so kids who play in urban playgrounds are supposed to wash their hands before eating anything.

So if our people have detectable elevated lead levels (it has a plenty-long bio half life), I'd question automotive exhaust and industry before worrying about guns at the range. Unless someone is squeezing off a hundred rounds a day.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The vast majority of Americans don’t own/shoot guns. There’s 300 million guns because some people own multiple.

Source: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/the-demographics-of-gun-ownership/

Also, the British literally voted to have a worse economy. We don’t have a monopoly on headassery.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Also, the British literally voted to have a worse economy. We don’t have a monopoly on headassery.

Our Brexit vote narrowly won for the same reason that Trump won again - the weaponisation of our stupid people via social media by right-wing shitbags.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I think there's a much higher chance of slow-poisoning with heavy metals and other chemicals by food then shooting guns. Food quality standards in the US are poor. As well as nutrition wise. Malnutrition has a big effect on people their brain. The brain needs loads of stuff to function properly, not just corn syrup and fats. And with the poor US food safety regulations and poor tap water there's more poison then nutricions coming into your body.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

It is absolutely driving me bonkers. I think the two words will collapse into one over the next century if people don't stop making this mistake. It's so common and it irks me so!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

Your absolutely correct, you're judgement is sound.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago (2 children)

All good. I appreciated your comment since I'm not a native English speaker. I had to read the comment twice to find the "then", because my brain was on auto-correct. So I really wanted to thank you, but than my inner clown took over. Happens from time to time. Sorry about that.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

So I really wanted to thank you, but than my inner clown took over

Lol

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Lol the funny thing is that I literally didn't even notice the spelling of "thenk" until now!

I appreciate the responses on two levels haha

Curious -- what is your native language?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago (2 children)

You're welcome. I'm German. And you probably missed the "than" in my previous comment. Isn't it fun how our brian works? (I was soo tempted to write "your welcome" 😀)

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Religion is the cause. You are not allowed to think outside the cult. There are a lot of idiot Americans who don't own guns or are exposed to them, so the lead theory is not valid in that sense.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Look at this guy, he doesn't know gun ownership is a cult. Praise firearm Jesus.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

There is a venn diagram where Idiot is the center. Not everyone who is a xian owns a gun, not all gun owners are xians, and yes, there are xians who worship the NRA. National Russia Association

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

The dumbest and most religious ones usually own the most weapons though, so it's a persistent state of mutual amplification.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

It's also in the American water and air, so probably a minor contributing factor.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

That's a really interesting angle, I also wonder how much damage the lead in gasoline did before they banned it.

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