this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2024
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No Stupid Questions

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No such thing. Ask away!

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And I'm being serious. I feel like there might be an argument there, I just don't understand it. Can someone please "steelman" that argument for me?

(page 2) 12 comments
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[–] [email protected] 17 points 7 hours ago

Honestly for a portion of the ones here online, I don't think they actually care that much about Gaza except as a convenient tool to attack Americans. It's academic to them. I don't expect it'll stop once Trump is in, they'll just switch to criticizing Americans overall. They're mostly leftist agitators, and I honestly think they hate moderate progressives the most, since we're trying to improve capitalism which makes it harder to undermine and destroy.

For people that actually do care, it's a personal, emotional argument about not being able to feel good about it, which I understand. It's a sort of trolley problem. If they don't vote, they kinda just walk away and the trolley runs over a bunch of people, but they don't have to watch and bear a sense of personal responsibility at that emotional level for being a part of it. It doesn't actually benefit Gaza, but there's only so much they could really do anyway.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 hours ago

Maybe if they are young. Its comes up again and again. I voted for ross perot but was lucky it did not effect the election. I mean just the 50 cent gas tax would have been great for the environment given it would have gone into effect in the 90's as a federal tax. Electronic direct democracy. Increase in education and infrastructure. It was hard not to like his proposals.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 hours ago
  • An overly simplistic/naive view of the world. (Not sure what they expect here? Stopping weapons and technology transfer? Maybe the US going to war with Israel to stop the Gaza atrocities? Or are they just expecting something symbolic? If Harris publicly denounced Israel's actions, would that be enough?)
  • Thinking that the US President has more power than they do in reality (Congress and the Courts, checks and balances)
  • Some logical fallacies they've convinced themselves into believing. False Dilemma Fallacy maybe? https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/common-logical-fallacies

Only a Sith deals in absolutes

[–] [email protected] 28 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Those are people who are unable or unwilling to see the forest for the trees.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

Russian bots mostly, but also privileged people who think that a Trump presidency won't affect them

[–] [email protected] 23 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (3 children)

Don't underestimate the pissed off poor. The Dems kept telling them that things weren't so bad while the Reps said they'd change things.

The changes will of course be worse, but if things are clearly shit, and someone keeps telling you that it's not that bad, you start to despise those people even if they're the better choice.

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[–] [email protected] 61 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

A lot of people did in fact set aside Gaza until Trump was stopped. As for those that didn't, they should have listened to Bernie Sanders. I did months ago and went all-in on Dem support. There were multiple times when I wrote up an angry post about US support of Israel and then didn't post it because I didn't want to turn a voter into a non-voter or worse a Trump supporter.

I understand their position of never rewarding ethnic cleansing and war crimes though. They chose to make sure the Dems know they would never "settle" for the illegal killing of civilians. The support for Israel made it especially hard for Arab Americans to vote Dem. It's difficult to support a party that has been in power during the whole conflict yet gives unconditional support for the internationally condemned murder of Arabs.

I'm sure a lot also felt disenfranchised by the bipartisan protest suppression and condemnation. Even in Dem states peaceful protesters were punished, and sometimes pro-Israeli protesters who attacked got away with it. Then there was the whole "vote with us or else" pressure that went on for months. Dissenters like the "uncommitted" voters were insulted by the party that wanted their unconditional support.

So it's not like it's completely insane. But as Sanders points out that position only makes things worse and has done so.

[–] [email protected] 119 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

I know people who voted neither candidate because Trump was horrible and Harris was pro-choice. Single-issue voters are the death of democracy. Full stop.

[–] [email protected] 59 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (1 children)

I said months ago that we were going to "single issue" our way to Trump 2.0, and I've never ever wanted to be wrong more than when I said that.

[–] [email protected] 60 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

nearly all the single-issue voters on the right vote in lock-step unison, and have for decades.

democrats and progressives seem to just toss in the towel if they aren't getting everything they want, right now.

it takes time to build something great, it takes but a moment to destroy it all. welcome to total destruction.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 7 hours ago

Yep, to all that, and I've often grumbled the same things.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 hours ago (2 children)
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