this post was submitted on 13 Sep 2024

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506

Don’t Fall for the Third-Party Trick (web.archive.org)

submitted 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

451 comments fedilink hide all child comments

"Progressives should not make the same mistake that Ernst Thälmann made in 1932. The leader of the German Communist Party, Thälmann saw mainstream liberals as his enemies, and so the center and left never joined forces against the Nazis. Thälmann famously said that 'some Nazi trees must not be allowed to overshadow a forest' of social democrats, whom he sneeringly called 'social fascists.'

After Adolf Hitler gained power in 1933, Thälmann was arrested. He was shot on Hitler’s orders in Buchenwald concentration camp in 1944."

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago

Not a single party on the face of the earth is gonna switch to an alternative voting system. Democracy devolving into 2 parties is a problem in nearly every country and unfortunately the ones who can make the change are the ones who benefit from first pass the post voting

No "democratic" party is gonna switch to STAR or a similar voting system unless the citizens start being very loud.

On other hand, radicalizing people to support alternative voting is also very hard, because it is hard to explain and hard to understand for majority of people and its often viewed as if the supporter is trying to benefit from the said change and trying to sabotage democracy, when in reality, they are the ones who want real democracy

[–] [email protected] -5 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Vote for who YOU want to be president, regardless of if they have a chance to win or not. I wasn't going to vote for Biden (or Trump) no matter what. I see people saying if you vote 3rd party you're waisting your vote. You aren't. You are supporting the candidate you like.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I am sorry, but this take is founded on a lack of knowledge about the spoiler effect in first past the post voting systems. Until more representative forms of voting are introduced this is an idealistic but ultimately misinformed take.

The spoiler effect is a system powerful encumbant politicians use to manipulate populaces at large in part by taking advantage of your better nature and belief in a flawed system. Voting your heart will just not be enough and it's got hidden dangers. Pressure needs to be applied after this election to change the voting structure to a more stable and open system.

https://youtu.be/3Y3jE3B8HsE?si=qCvPLnk4u6FJ0ec2

Here's a video that explains fairly susinctly what the spoiler effect is and how alternative voting systems disrupt it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago

Still gonna vote for who I like and always will. I was gonna vote for Vermin Supreme until Biden dropped out.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 days ago (1 children)

These posts are always missing the point. Voters will vote third party. Your moral claims won't change that, but your candidate's policies could. Also, most of us don't live in swing states. Don't pretend our vote matters when it never did.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Voters will but they can't do so under the delusion that a) they are making any sort of change or b) that they aren't hurting the actually viable candidate closest to them.

The winner of the election in every state will be the Democrat or the Republican, full stop. You can choose to help or harm the one closest to your opinion.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 days ago (1 children)

This is the type of delusion that eventually leads to fascism any way

"Hey don't try to change anything because obviously only one of two people can win"

"Hey you have to change things from the inside of the party, you can't just have a third party even though every half decent western government has multiple parties"

"If you don't want to vote for a genocidal enabler of capitalism and class separation paid for by the same people who pay for trump/hitler, then you're voting for trump/Hitler"

"You have to bring the super nuts authoritarian fascists into the group, and exclude the actual left wing people who are screaming for basic decency and rights for everyone"

"Oh no how on earth did the crazy right wingers take over the entire country who could have seen this coming? It's totally not the fault of a governmental party that can't sort their shit out and take on policies that a majority of it's constituents want, but instead keeps sliding as far to the right as possible every time they have to move"

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago

The delusion is thinking you can change things with a single election. If you don't like the two party system (and I don't) then you must get more involved in politics than voting for the president. You would need to elect principled progressives at every level of government, fight against fascism at every opportunity, and diligently protect the progress we have made.

Voting for a third party candidate is like showing up to a birthday party as they're lighting the candles and complaining that nobody asked you about the decorations. It doesn't matter if your objections are valid, you've missed the window to do anything about it.

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