this post was submitted on 19 Aug 2024
0 points (NaN% liked)

Daystrom Institute

3447 readers
1 users here now

Welcome to Daystrom Institute!

Serious, in-depth discussion about Star Trek from both in-universe and real world perspectives.

Read more about how to comment at Daystrom.

Rules

1. Explain your reasoning

All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.

2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.

This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in Risa.

3. Be diplomatic.

Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make Star Trek. Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.

4. Assume good faith.

Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”

5. Tag spoilers.

Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.

6. Stay on-topic.

Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.

Episode Guides

The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

In LD 1x08 Veritas, Rutherford is rotating some "EPS Capacitors" (These seem to have little mention outside this episode) to prevent them from overheating.

Before I ask my questions, I first want to establish what makes sense to me here. Although not previously mentioned, like electrical capacitors, EPS Capacitors probably help to "smooth out" plasma flow. As these are high-power systems, I am sure there is risk of overheating in these capacitors that is not as present in current electrical capacitors, which usually don't have a rotating mechanism.

Now, for the questions:

  • Why do the capacitors rotate, and what does this do to prevent overheating?
  • Why do they have to do this in the 24th century in a post-scarcity society?

For the first: My first theory is these are variable capacitors. Assuming the mechanics work similarly to electrical capacitors, Rutherford could be changing the capacitance of each capacitor to rotate the load. This doesn't feel completely right, though (for instance, how to keep the array within specification).

A better theory is that although its function is analogous to an electrical capacitor, the physical mechanics used behind it are different, and somehow wear in the internal materials is uneven unless rotated, somewhat like tires.

For the second: We practically mastered rotating crap with electricity in THE 20TH CENTURY and have only gotten better since. I don't understand why Starfleet couldn't just give each capacitor a servo motor running off an EPS tap that does the randomization automatically, or at the very least mount them all on a belt. Heck, if heat is the problem, why not a liquid cooling loop? The worst that can happen is an ensign has to go get a mop.

It could be possible that maybe it was kept there as a task to bully ensigns/make officers feel useful, but I feel that kind of thinking wouldn't necessarily exist at the Cali class drawing board. It could be possible that somehow the magnets in the motor interfere with the EPS containment field, but I feel like that would mean a lot more crap would have to be banned on board if the EPS conduits were that vulnerable.

Ultimately, I really can't make full sense of this second point, and would love insights on this and my first question.

top 17 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Alternative theory: it's a Cali class ship, so the EPS capacitors did rotate automatically once over the course of a day, but that system broke and they haven't gotten whatever replacement part is required, so they put ensigns on the task until the automated solution is fixed.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago

My theory was always that they're not supposed to overheat unless rotated they're supposed to distribute heat evenly through some internal mechanism. They don't really work properly and an upgrade was developed that improved heat loading.

This necessitated some redesign of the interface.

But because they're in an old California class the interface was never replaced with the newer model, and so they are still stuck with the old capacitors. Given the fact that the California class is not a frontline vessel, at least it's not supposed to be, and is unlikely to be far from a space dock, it was not considered a major issue to have them running on an old system. Also the California classes are physically relatively small vessels, so perhaps the plasma load isn't enough for it to matter anyway.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

In a post-scarcity society, they let you have the job you want. Those knobs don’t even do anything but they make him feel like an integral part of the ship's operation.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Yeah it's the classic sci-fi problem. With the advanced tech they have on Star Trek, the humans would basically have nothing to do all day. This would make the characters unrelatable to viewers, so the writers need to invent stuff for them to do.

Like with many things in Star Trek, just don't think about it too much, it makes no sense the moment you do.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago

I would agree. But this is c/Daystrom Institute…

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago

As to the second, typically automation is a balance between complexity and use of the automation vs difficulty and time consumed by a task, which is to say that if you only need to do a task like change how the capacitors are wearing in once a year or more, and it’s relatively safe and easy to do by hand, then it just may not be worth the trouble of automating be having someone do it by hand every now and then.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago

They don’t, Rutherford just likes the acoustic nature of it.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

For the sake of external consistency, seeking a problem to fit the solution:

It seems like there's relatively little on the ship in the way of rotational mechanics, doors make a pneumatic sound, etc. Perhaps the equipment is highly EM sensitive? Like the electromagnetic waves from a motor could screw then up somehow kinda like electrostatic issues in a computer?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The reverse could be true also - the EM coming off the plasma conduits could interfere with the operation of brushless motors.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago

I think this is a sensible one. It means crew could e.g use their antique toothbrushes without some risk of blowing up the ship, but stuff like that might not work in some quarters. (I’m assuming a section of crew quarters is all run off an EPS tap, so stuff should be fine in most cases.)

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

We had an old pioneer sound system which had a big volume knob. You could turn it by hand but if you used the remote it would turn when you turned volume up and down. Possibly these are similar where they automatically tune and turn but allow for manual interaction in case of emergency.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

It’s the Cerritos, so maybe there is a motor system like that but broken at the moment.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago

It could also be a design used in the California class alone, kinda like how Starfleet realized the Intrepid class bio bits were neat, but ultimately less reliable

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago

We had an old pioneer sound system which had a big volume knob. You could turn it by hand but if you used the remote it would turn when you turned volume up and down. Possibly these are similar where they automatically tune and turn but allow for manual interaction in case of emergency.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I have some thoughts on that despite the fact that I don't even watch the show.

For the first point: Load distribution to ensure that the system wears down more evenly is a thing that can be done. Yeah you may be able to automate it but there can be reasons why you may not want to do that, like added complexity that makes the system even more failure prone For the second point: It's still a lot easier to maintain something than it is to fix it when it's broken. Having eyes there to do that may just be a way to get someone to check for potential failure points before they become a problem. Even if they may be in other systems nearby that are unrelated. Having someone check those systems by hand also has a security aspect to it because it makes it less likely that someone can just tamper with that system. Yes you have dedicated security personnel but security is still everyone's responsibility.

Also. Plot points and all that stuff that makes it fun to watch.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago

Although I don’t agree with your argument about the complexity of automation (someone could just fix the motors every once in a while if some are borked), I also see your point that as sort of a bread-and-butter ship, the California class might be designed as a KISS ship for its application, whereas maybe something like an Intrepid class, if expected to go into battle, might have an automated system.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago

I think it's a joke