this post was submitted on 19 Aug 2024
196 points (96.2% liked)

No Stupid Questions

35727 readers
880 users here now

No such thing. Ask away!

!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)


Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.

All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.



Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.

Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.



Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.



Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That's it.



Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.



Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.

On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.

If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.



Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.

If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.



Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.



Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

Let everyone have their own content.



Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.



Credits

Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!

The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

Been going on for thousands of years. The more information access we have the more we hear about these kinds of things.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

I mean you give people authority over kids and then teach them to hate the sexual part of their personality, and something's gonna go wrong, probably way more often than it goes right.

I haven't done any real reading on it yet, this is just a really common sense starting hypothesis. So don't take it for more than that. But that's my guess.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Been happening for a long time. It's also not just Catholic church. All religions are guilty of some sick shit. ALL OF THEM!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I thought this was far less common between protestants whose priests can actually have a family, but I rarely get any "protestant news" given that i live in a catholic country

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

It happens at the same rate most likely, but I don't think protestants have the same centralized authority that Catholics do to coordinate massive coverups, so the pastors usually get fired or "quietly retire" rather than being shifted to a new church where nobody knows they're a pedo.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Personally I feel like it happens less often. The Catholic Church really have a reputation. I've only ever heard 'altar boy' to mean a young boy who's being groomed and taken advantage of. I have no fucking clue what an altar boy really is.

Whoever it definitely still happens with protestants. Usually with youth pastors (surprise, surprise).

[–] [email protected] 21 points 2 months ago

BTW, it is not just the catholic church having those issues. This happens everywhere when people have a position of power over children.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

For the hows, I find the life of Marcial Maciel a raw example. For how long, I wouldn't put it in the beginning of the roman-catholic church, but centuries have passed for sure.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

Just the latest offenders, but please look at the size of this database: https://www.bishop-accountability.org/accused/

A common way of manipulating people is to deny them parts of being human. Be wary of any organization that tries to control your food or sex. Fasting and abstinence are massive red flags that the organization is toxic.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The best explanation i've seen is this:

Places that put children under the authority of adults (schools, camps, etc) are appealing for child predators; but where most will kick them out when/if found, the Catholic Church makes it easier for them to stay in.

This is because of a religious belief that God judges men for their sins, eventually rehabilitates them, and the job of mere mortals is to forgive and forget.

I really like this explanation because it doesn't flatter my atheist sentiment and provides a very neat and rational cause-and-effect relation, it's a thing that's specific about the Church compared to other institutions.

Priests also take a vow of chastity, in people's minds they're supposed to be above sexual desire; and they have an extra aura of authority compared to the average teacher or summer camp instructor. Both of these things makes it harder for children and parents to question them.

And once they do question them, the Church gets a similar behavior to other institutions where they'll try to protect their reputation by burying the case. I'm not sure which positions are supposed to be held for life, i assume most of them, and so that makes firing someone (or whatever the right word is in this context) a bigger deal.

Thems my attempted explanations

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

Priests also take a vow of chastity, in people’s minds they’re supposed to be above sexual desire; and they have an extra aura of authority compared to the average teacher or summer camp instructor. Both of these things makes it harder for children and parents to question them.

I would imagine that the vow of chastity thing also attracts some paedophiles trying to fight it. Some of them will then inevitably give in to the temptation if an opportunity arises.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 months ago

Catholic church is responsible for the worst atrocities in history.

Honestly not sure how anyone could support them anymore with how readily available historical information is.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 2 months ago

The last decade?!

This is going on forever and people are coming forward from the moment it was possible to do so. Unfortunately it wasn’t possible for a long time.

Watch The Keepers on Netflix.
It starts out as an investigation in a cold case murder of a Catholic nun in 1969 and unearths atrocities in multitude. It shows clearly how they silenced everyone who dared to question or speak out about abuse in the church.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Oh boy.

You're gonna want to Google Sinead O'Connor and where her career went.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

I heard "The Emperor's New Clothes" on the way in to work this morning. It hits different now after everything that's happened.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 2 months ago

Everything in life is about sex. Except sex, that is about power.

Religion isn't about a better afterlife, it is about power and control. Those high ranking priests don't believe in god otherwise they wouldn't sin.

They want to fuck kids and so they build structures around that.

So how long? Since its inception.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

There's a Robert De Niro, Kevin Bacon, Brad Pitt movie from 1996 called Sleepers that is partly about sexual abuse of boys by catholic priests. The fact that such a movie actually had an audience back then tells you that this has been going on for a long time.

The movie is based on a book where the author has claimed that it is a true story from his childhood.

Also, Rational Wiki has an article on th specific topic you're asking about https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Child_sexual_abuse_in_the_Roman_Catholic_Church

[–] [email protected] 29 points 2 months ago

The sexual abuse of young boys has been going on for a very, very long time but for most of that time, the church and all its institutions were unassailable and infallible. So most of it went unreported at the time. The attitude that the church and by extension, the priest could do no wrong was especially prevalent here where I grew up. Which is why some truly horrible things were allowed to happen. The church committed some vile acts and they weren't all sexual abuse and enjoyed the protection of the government all the while. Here have some fun reading.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Here in Germany it has been revealed that the church set up a whole network shuffling around offenders (or sending them away to south america) and muddling traces. It's even been shown that the former pope knew about such cases. It's systemic.

Basically it's a combination of supposed moral authority, intransparency, and mutual cover ups. People are willing to look the other way a lot when they perceive of someone as having a higher mission or great social standing. That includes law enforcement. Think of Donald Trump who's a fraudster-racist-rapist-insurrectionist and yet the MAGA crowd loves him. Maybe celibacy plays into it as well, sexual urges don't stop just because you don a robe.

Younger people are less and less religious with each generation. So at least from that angle the problem might eventually go away.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago

I don't understand how the organization doesn't collapse. It shows how, like so many things in society, people are inhuman scum, that they keep oppressive systems and organizations alive despite mountains of evidence of its harmfulness.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I can only speak for my lifetime and that of my parents, but in my country the church has been revealed to be a child trafficking, child abusing, money laundering, woman enslaving organisation. It has a veneer of pseudo-wholesomeness.

It’s important to recognise that while people rightly expose the church for this, they usually operate with the assistance of the local communities. In Ireland people in the community would report woman who were “impure” in some way, which the church could justify for enslaving them and selling their children if those women gave birth. This is all within the last several decades and I’m sure even before then.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 months ago (1 children)

That's not just your country. That's organized religion in every country.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

I think that’s generally accepted. I wanted to qualify what I’m saying a bit more by mentioning the lived experience here and the complicity of wider society.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago

I think people haven't changed that much in their nature, what changed is the culture and since a few decades people have been more open and daring to talk about it in spite of any stigmas.

I could swear I've read Marquis de Sade saying priests very often hide all sorts of dirty secrets about boys. That was a couple centuries ago...

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 months ago

Historically, it's been alleged that some 'celibate' Catholic bishops fucked women. When the resulting bastard children grew up, they were rewarded with coveted Church appointments. If anyone noticed the apparent favoritism, they blamed the adultery on their brother, saying the appointee was a nephew (it: nipote) rather than the priest's own illegitimate son. Thus the origin of the term nepotism.

Probably some of them had different tastes and realized that fucking boys leaves less evidence.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

There was a gigantic scandal where I grew up in Boston in the 90s/00s... it brought a lot of claims out of the woodwork and it turns out that priests diddle a lot of young kids and it's fucking awful.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 months ago (1 children)

In Germany there has been a court ruling that it is allowed to call the catholic church a “Kinderfickersekte” which translates to “child raping cult”.

It was only a lower court and the church choose to not object against it probably because they were smart enough to fear the additional publicity this would get if a higher court would confirm it. https://taz.de/Gotteslaesterung-ist-kein-Problem/!5067953/?t

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Germans really need permits for everything.

Here we don’t need to be allowed to call them that, we just can.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I think in most countries the church would hit you with a cease and desist notice if you called them a child raping cult.

That's not exclusively German.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

They could try to get cease and desist all they want, there’s a constitutional right in most countries that protects such speech.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

By "most countries" I'm pretty sure you mean "the United States", and your constitutional right does not protect you from civil slander or libel cases.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Most countries don't have a "the church"

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

If there's "a" church then there's "the" church.

It doesn't need to be an international organisation headquartered in the vatican city. It could be equivalent to your local knitting club. If you say mean things about an organisation you can expect them to take legal action to stop you.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

If they don't like being called that they could always... stop raping children.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

I'm not defending the church in any way, merely pointing out that they are a litigious organisation and it's probably easier to take legal action than to stop raping children.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago

With allowed it doesn't literally mean allowed. It means being able to publicly call them that without the church being able to sue for defamation.

Free speech is a thing in Germany, you can say pretty much what you want. But if you go around and accusing people of fucking kids, there's going to be consequences.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

We say in Germany everything that is not explicitly allowed is forbidden. And this is just a little bit exaggerated, but not much.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

I mean that's completely wrong as far as laws go. Socially that's pretty much true

load more comments
view more: next ›