Asklemmy

::: spoiler I appreciate the argument, but I do not think it is necessarily the case. There is a difference between knowing enough background to infer truth, versus active domination of information. One of the key aspects of this is to also define all information with statistics where no single source is absolute or over valued.

I'm certainly struggling with how to define intent and what sensory inputs are needed in such a system while keeping it outside of authoritarian, dystopian, or utopian. Ultimately, the future will require far more scientific knowledge and it will eventually encompass data on this scale in a post age-of-discovery era. Our present ideals are largely based on our history and limitations. The idea that we have made such exponential progress necessitates a revised set of limitations. We must acknowledge both the good and the bad consequences of progress and find amicable solutions. I believe that assuming such a system is totalitarian falls short of reality. While I fault the present world governments considerably in their present state, overall things are not as bad as the past, yet by the measures of writers from 150 years ago everything about the present life without extreme egalitarianism and self sufficiency where everyone has a tract of arable land is a dystopian nightmare. At the same time, go through some life altering event at the hands of someone else that leaves you physically disabled, like what I have experienced. One learns of the true extent of modern medicine when all the experts can't even diagnose what is wrong, let alone address it; after seeing every expert from San Diego to LA and even the disreputables. No one uses the scientific method for diagnosis. All treatments for pain are correlative nonsense based on low sigma cherry picked data without any form of unbiased peer review. Every little is actually known about biology in the present. We have only barely begun to start taking shitty notes about the low hanging fruit of science in an absolute sense. I'm interested in asking questions about life will be like from the other side of this knowledge gap. It is a bit naive to assume it is possible to do so. The difference in time and information is far greater than a Neanderthal in a cave wondering about life 20k years later in the present. Our present culture is completely lacking in this perspective of time, and it is a major source of our problems and mistakes in the present. We are not very advanced. There is an enormous amount of progress to be made, but we stagnate for the benefit of a corrupt establishment and fallaciously pedantic media. We largely fail to see our limitations, against a backdrop of our potential.

So, there are a mountain of laws in the present that represent a similar totalitarian level of micromanagement. Off the top of my head, that is the closest analog I can think of where a system is large in scope, but managed selectively without being overly invasive for the average person.

I prefer the idea of kindness and empathy when it comes to how a system understands the individual in both actions and psychology. I do not believe other humans can encompass such a scope, but other systems are capable of such. I'm working on the idea of how a system that understands cognitive dissonance thoroughly might govern. What if you could trust an entity with finding the best solutions for everyone without oversimplification or biases beyond the fundamental unalienable rights. I believe that such a set of unalienable rights statistically does exist without arbitrary writings of a small committee for document or corpora. We have many conflicting variables in the present when such a thing is considered, but in a very distant future that assumes massive advances in knowledge, most of these conflicts are de facto resolved. That is just my take, so far. I still find it very challenging to imagine the implementation in practicality, but I still believe in an amicable solution that is not utopian idealism.

there is nothing more useless than a downvote and no conversation on a constructive and creative reply - the worst of semi anonymous internet nonsense.

...or can know things about concepts unrelated to the physical world.

I do not fully grasp this context or dimensionality of scope. I am not implying any form of mentalism, but I doubt that was the intended meaning here.

You've helped me see more clearly though. I'm postulating that it is possible to statistically ground inference against infinite probability once enough background information is established and unknown scopes constrained. The data collection in-situ grounds the interlocutor against the background. Truth is known when the matter in question has a sufficient statistical constraint against this background.

I guess I'm saying intuitive reasoning has a grounding scope flaw in the present, but this flaw is solvable because the observable universe is finite and a statistical measure against it is a valid truth and condition for conscious existence within once sufficient information is known and encompassed with understanding. Does this perspective have a name?

Hold on, grabbing my petunias.

Thanks for the reply, and I agree with it under the present world constraints. I am proposing that this your reasoning is built on the premise of limited scope of knowledge and the limitations of attention required to encompass such knowledge practically.

The size of the universe may be infinite and never known, but is irrelevant against any statistical probability greater than the observable universe. Therefore an established background of information known and understood to such a degree so as to constrain any remaining unknown or even unknowable factors, is a sufficient grounding plane of inquiry. Once inference is grounded sufficiently to this plane, all events will follow intuitive reasoning because this reasoning is grounded to the tapestry of statistically provable reality that is based on the existence of the event or entity within the accessible universe.

I believe, however naively, that the science methods are irrelevant on my time scales here. My tongue and cheek place keeper for the year is 420,421 AF (After Fusion). The hardest part to grasp from an outside perspective is just how little is known at the present and the exponentially larger scope I'm referring to with all of these ideas. This is the interesting space to tell stories in this future.

I'm mostly looking for the label one might call those that argue this epistemological perspective, and their opposing counterparts.

I'm trying to simplify without telling a story to get there but am about to fail. I'm working out the idea of how academics might argue for and (to a losing argument) against codification of science as an engineering corpus in a very distant future. I'm willing to gloss over the balance of cost over return and already well beyond hierarchical wealth in favor of reputation and accolades for large scale hierarchy, and heat/elemental cycles budget for the average person, in a space based life that has colonized G-type stars within 7 parsecs of Sol. Colonization is driven by time pressure of Sol's expansion. It is only possible to travel one way with generation ships powered by antimatter produced with the Solar infrastructure. No FTL, no aliens, no magic. The biggest magic is the assumption that a self replicating drone is possible, but only at kilometers scale.

The entire story idea stems from the notion that the present fear of AI is a mythos of the machine gods. I am setting up to create a story where a fully understood human like brain is synthesised in a lab as a biological computer. All human scale technology is biological, but the bio-compute brayn is the crowning achievement for millennia until someone comes up with a way to merge the brayn with lab grown holoanencephaloids that create independent humanoid AGI. It is a round about way of creating a semi plausible mortal flesh and blood AGI.

I further the idea of integrating these entities with humans at every level of life. Later in life these human scale intelligence AGI entities may get invitations to join with a collective Central AGI that functions as the governing system. I'm using the unique life experience of integration as a counter to the Alignment Problem and as a form of representative democracy.

I refuse to admit that this must be authoritarian, dystopian, or utopian. I believe we tend to assume ~~it~~ similar ideas are one or more of these things because we are blind to both the potential for other forms of complex social hierarchy, and the true nature of our present forms of hierarchical display.

The question posed in this post is not about the absolute truth, but that which is plausible for populist dominance.

It is just a pointless hobby project, but a means to explore and keep my mind occupied.

I like your premise.

Not really, that theorem says there are true things that cannot be proven, whereas this question is more about running out of proofs that you can make.