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Real shit, can you sue them for this? I mean they aren't stopping selling them even knowing they are faulty. Seriously, how can you get your money back from these vultures.
Vote with your wallet and don't ever get anything from this piece of shit trash ass company again. What a joke. They aren't even stopping selling them KNOWING there's an issue. Wish I had money to sue the fuck out of them.
It really sucks that the only chips that support openbios and custom firmware is from such a shit company like this.
WHY will AMD and Nvidia not support it? I'm running out of options. Guess I'll just stick with old ass computers from now on.
FUCK Intel.
So glad I spent like $2K on a computer with one of these in it that has custom firmware and BIOS on it. Guess I'm just fucked eh? Never buying Intel ever again.
What did they mess from 12th?
13th and 14th gen are literally the exact same hardware as 12th gen, but with boosted clock speeds and power requirements. Basically, intel is struggling to develop new hardware, as they’re beginning to be limited by things like atom size and the speed of light across the width of the chip. So instead of developing new hardware, they just slapped new code onto the 12th gen chips and called them a new generation.
But they made the rookie mistake of not adequately dealing with heat dissipation (which is easy to make when overclocking,) and chips are burning out.
I don't think that the voltage issue is simply heat, not unless it is some kind of extremely-localized or extremely-short-in-time issue internal to the chip. I hit the problem with a very hefty water cooler that didn't let the attached processor ever get very warm, at least as the processor reported temperatures.
Wendell, at Level1Techs, who did an earlier video with Steve Burke talking about this, looked over a dataset of hundreds of machines. They were running with conservative speed settings, in a datacenter where all temperatures were being logged, and he said that the hottest he ever saw on any hotspot on any processor in his dataset was, IIRC, 85 degrees Celsius, and normally they were well below that. He saw about a 50% failure rate.
If we hit the problem on our well-cooled CPUs, if the CPU simply getting hot were a problem, I'd have expected people running them in hotter environments to have slammed into the thing immediately. Ditto for Intel -- I'd guess (I'd hope) that part of their QA cycle involves running the processors in an industrial oven, as a way to simulate more-serious conditions. Those things are supposed to be fine at 100 degrees Celsius, at which point they throttle themselves.
It's not about the CPU package getting too hot, it's about a specific set of transistors getting too hot. I think I read they're between the processing units and the cache. The size of these transistors combined is probably around a couple mm square. Unless you etch the package back you can't measure them precisely. And if you etch that you can't dissipate their temperature so you can rub CPU at maximum load.
13th & 14th Gen were just higher voltage and clock speed and boost time limit versions of 12th Gen. It seems like they just over did it
Money grab because they didn't have anything new to actually bring to the table this time.
Holy crap I barely escaped. I needed an upgrade years ago and settled on the i7-12700k. After I ride this chip out I’m switching to AMD.
I really hope customers get justice in this debacle. We need a lawsuit now.
Ryzen life.
Man I just hate that you can't disable the PSP spyware bullshit. It's the only reason I don't use them
~~What?~~
I looked it up but don't understand it.
Its a "trusted" execution environment for the system. So basically, it has access over your entire system and there's no way to know what it is doing because it is proprietary and many people and third party security groups have expressed concerns about it before and asked them to open source the code that runs it and they will not do it.
Intel has a similar system the Intel Management Engine but you can disable that after bootup and also run it on open source bios so that it is essentially neutered. You cannot do that with AMD.
The NSA disables and removes Intel ME on their systems, so it seems like there's a very real threat from these proprietary systems that have complete and entire control over every aspect of the machine and software running it.
So you called it spyware but now you say you dont know what it is doing. So which one is it?
The fact that you can't discern what it is doing and it can't be disabled makes it invasive software. There's no shortage of qualified experts who agree with what I said and many others who point out glaring security vulnerabilities that come with using it. I linked a few for your convenience.
https://www.eteknix.com/nsa-may-backdoors-built-intel-amd-processors/
https://www.theregister.com/2018/01/06/amd_cpu_psp_flaw/
https://www.phoronix.com/news/AMD-PSP-Disable-Option
I'd say with all of the above at the very least its invasive software that has complete access to your system and all of its files and processes.
Spyware by definition is "Any malicious software that is designed to take partial or full control of a computer's operation without the knowledge of its user." The fact that you can't look into what all it can do makes it capable of doing this.
Perhaps I'm being pedantic, but even in your quoted definition we don't know that it's spyware. Because 1) we don't know if it takes full control 2) it's there with our knowledge. I still can't agree to your conclusion in your first comment that it is. It might be, but I'd phrase that differently.
blablabla more blabbering around the point below: just pure speculation of what it could possibly be worst case scenario.
Spyware by definition is “Any malicious software"
Cool, but since you have no idea whether or not its malicious calling it spyware is false.
Media definition of spyware for data privacy purposes is exactly that. The difference here is that this is a tool that can be leveraged to make a copy of all the data in your computer and put it on the cloud, among other things. Tik tok and Facebook can't do that and are subject to much bigger scrutiny.
Same and also went with Radeon graphics this time. Very happy with my decision.
Damn I just upgraded to socket AM5 too, great decision. It almost was Intel.
If your CPU is crashing/unstable then yes, damage is already done, but for the few of us who bought these later just update your bios to the latest one, set intel defaults, do not overclock (I have even undervolted it a bit, but ymmv) and wait for the microcode update.
Though I do wonder if Intel isn't just stalling for time, I do hope they are not. Didn't wanna touch my build for next ~5 years.
There is also a corrosion issue. No software update will fix that. Intel purposely misled the media on that.
Rather get Ryzen and not deal with this.
That is, disappointingly, not sufficient to guarantee avoiding damage. I set all that in the BIOS using my first processor (13900KF) before ever inserting my replacement processor (14900KF) into the motherboard. The replacement processor still destroyed itself.
Processor 1 used only motherboard defaults and managed to destroy itself.
Processor 2 used only Intel recommended settings, no XMP memory profile, no Intel turbo boost, more conservative than motherboard defaults, and also destroyed itself.
I did not try running a processor for its lifetime at minimum memory speed or with only 1 core active. It's possible that that might be sufficient to avoid damage. If I hadn't already gone AMD over this, and had to use a processor from the affected generations, that's what I'd be doing now until Intel comes out with their update. Not gonna do much by way of fancy gaming, but at least the system's usable and hopefully won't destroy itself.
I thought I read that Intel said this was from messing with voltages? I have had plenty of these processors in the last couple of years and never experienced crashes, but I don’t overclock
Nah that was Intel trying to make excuses so it seemed like a competent company.
That was one initial theory, but it's known to not be the cause. An earlier video that Steve Burke and Wendell from A1techs did had Wendell examine several hundred CPUs that were running in servers on non-Z790 motherboards (another source of potential problems that was initially blamed) at conservative settings, known and logged temperature for the lifetime of the server (so not temperature). He still saw about a 50% failure rate.
I also personally destroyed one of my CPUs with motherboard default settings, and the other with Intel's recommended settings (less aggressive than the motherboard defaults), so I can personally attest to this not just being people running with crazy voltages or something.
There may also be other issues that people have caused by doing something else, but the elephant in the room has been narrowed down to processors destroying themselves while running well within spec.
